Thursday, October 20, 2011

451 92-136 Period 5

135 comments:

  1. Class - On page 92 it says, “...and the moon might go up in red fire…” Why does Montag reference the Moon like this? Is this symbolic? Might it mean that everything that has ever supported him along the way (like the moon does to Earth) is going to just up and away? Or perhaps literally just blow up and set to fire?

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  2. Class - Do you think Beatty wanted to die as Montag said, or was Montag just trying to satisfy a guilty conscience?

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  3. Class- They say that war is declared but they give no background on why the war was declared. What could they be going to war for? If they live in a 'perfect society' where things that cause conflict (like books) are eliminated, what would be the reason for going to war? Are other countries or areas different then where Montag lives? How different? Or do you think that this kind of society is a worldwide thing?

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  4. Class- when Beatty calls Montag "Guy" do you think that has an impact?

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  5. Sam - I was confused about that too. It seemed really random. I think it's a war against Montag, but I'm not positive.

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  6. Emily- I also have that same question. I think that Beatty was asking for death when he was taunting Montag and I believe that maybe he didn't want to die but didn't have a reason not to.

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  7. Emily H - I think that he was trying to get through to Montag and to show that he (Beatty) was a friend and that Montag needed to come back to the right way of life.

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  8. Emily-I think Beatty actually wanted to die because he did not defend himself and all he continued to watch Montag's anger grow and grow. I think he was tired of living in a society where he would continue to hurt people and figured that death was the only way to escape his depressing situation.

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  9. Emily- I really do think Beatty wished to die. Although he would never admit it, he lived his whole life under a sort of cover that tried to show he was happy.

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  11. Taylor- i think that it's symbolic not literal. I think that its kinda saying that somethings that are stable are going to go away.

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  12. Emily- Considering how this society is, I would not be surprised, however, he does not seem like the kind of person who would want to die. Although this world is horrible and what has happened to Beatty is equally horrible, Montag is only justifying his actions in my opinion.

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  13. Emily- I definetely think that Montag was just trying to cover up his guilt by saying that Beatty wanted to die, so that he wouldn't feel so much guilt for killing one of his close friends.

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  14. Class-So far, Beatty and Montag have quoted the bible and Shakespeare a lot. What is the significance of this and what could the author be symbolizing with this?

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  15. Emily H- I fully believe that Beatty calling Montag "Guy" made an impact. It seemed to me as if he was using the other man's first name to show just how close they really are and try to scare him.

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  16. Sam- That is a good thought. I think that their world is very corrupt because they are destroying things like books that have moral value but then they are going into war that is against making people happy. I believe that if other places in the world are not like this that they soon will be.

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  17. Emily - I think he was trying to get through to him. Like when a parent yells at a kid, they don't usually say their nickname or whatever, they say their full name. I think that's the same effect in the story. I think Beatty was acting as a superior force, and trying to make him do it.

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  18. Class-Why does there seem to be so little focus on the children in this story? They are the future of society, but they are barely known.

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  19. Class- Do you think that Mildred's actions were justifiable? Should she have called Montag in?

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  20. Class- If they have robot bank tellers, why are people fighting in the war?

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  21. Class- Why do you think that Beatty's death is important to the growth and development of Montag as a character?

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  22. Jeremy - I think those books are used because they are so famous.

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  23. Emily M- I think that Beatty did want to die. He certainly wouldn't be the only one. Mildred tried to kill herself and a lot of other people try to kill themselves as well. Maybe he's just as sick and tired of society as everyone else is.

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  24. Class-Why did Montag find it so important to read poetry to people who wouldn't even understand? Why would he risk the chance to potentially save the world from destroying itself?

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  25. Class- what do you believe the significance behind "the sieve and the sand" is?

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  26. Class- How could the mindset of "Don't face a problem, burn it" continue to affect Montag's actions and decisions?

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  27. Class- When Montag realizes that it was not a police car that almost hit him; it was actually a bunch of teenagers that tried to kill him just because he was out at night walking the streets. What does this say about their society? What is the significance of this?

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  28. Class-Why are some people so eager to challenge the system while others are not?

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  29. Sam- They actually state before, I believe it was Montag, that the rest of the world is in poverty. They are only going to war because they are tired of this land having such luxurious lives. The perfect society is the reason that they are at war! This is how I took it.

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  30. Colin - I think it is because the author says the kids kill each other, so he is showing that the future is a dead end.

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  31. Colin- I think that no one is thinking of the future. In the book it says that school is not the same as today and that learning is not a fundamental element to society. The only time the book talked about children was when Clarisse was around and she said that she didn't like school and that kids were killing each other.

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  32. Jeremy- I think that it's showing how even though books are banned and being burned, the fireman know the most about the books. It's really showing irony.

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  33. Jeremy- I think the focus on the bible and Shakespeare show that they are in search of more powerful literature to influence people. I think that Shakespeare and the bible are two of the most influential pieces of literature, and if there was any chance towards societal change, it would be through those two types.

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  34. Colin- I think that they are too absorbed in technology to care about anything, children or otherwise. They have just become another object that has to be dealt with.

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  35. Class- One of the most significant of the many literary allusions in Fahrenheit 451 occurs when Montag reads Matthew Arnold's poem "Dover Beach." What is the response of Mildred's friends, and why does Montag kick them out of his house?

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  36. Brooke- I feel that Montag believes that it may be a moment of opening their eyes. Perhaps a moment of enlightenment, of realization...

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  37. Brooke - I think it was his desperate measure to try to get someone to be on his side.

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  38. Meagan- I believe that the sieve could represent the human mind while the sand is knowledge. Montag is trying to grasp the words that he has read in books but he feels as if he cannot and that they are simply slipping away.

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  39. Class- Could the misery of having knowledge but not being able to use it have caused Beatty to "want to die?"

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  40. Sarah- I think that some people are content just to be average. It's like the difference between honors kids and regular kids sometimes, because honors kids have a big drive to achieve and sometimes other kids are content to just flow through.

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  41. Marco- We've heard again and again how cruel and horrible this society really is. They talk about the "Fun Park" were kids are running around murdering each other! This is just another example of how this "perfect" society really isn't perfect.

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  42. Class- What are Faber and Montag really trying to accomplish? At first it kind of sounded as a way of "revenge" to the government. What are they trying to accomplishing now that Beatty is dead?

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  43. Cassi - I think that will be significant in the story later on, as we have seen that it has been significant with Beatty's death. Also, when Faber and Montag are trying to throw off the trail of the Hound, they burn alot of things; once again "dont face your problems, burn it." I think we will continue to see this through out the rest of the story.

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  44. Brooke- I think that Montag thought it was a good idea to read the poetry to the ladies even though he knew it would probably get him in trouble because he had to get it out into the world that not all books are bad and that some can actually have a positive effect on people like it did on him.

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  45. Sarah- I think it just comes down to the motivation and laziness of some people in society compared to others. Some people look deeper into society and the future and realize its corruption. Some have the motivation to do something about it. Most people though just live in the moment and don't give any consideration as to where their world is heading.

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  46. Sarah- I do not really think that anyone is eager to challenge the system but that there are some who are willing to put their lives on the line in order to fight for what they believe.

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  47. Ellen-In a way Mildred was justifiable, since it was against the law to have books in someones possession. But looking at it in the perspective of Montag: Shes his wife. How could she possibly turn him in?

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  48. Megan and Emily- I was thinking the same thing, but it was such a big issue to risk! Do you think that he went overboard?

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  49. Joey- I think that his death will show Montag what his real goal is now. Beatty was once a big part of Montag's life and with him gone, that influence isn't always hanging over him.

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  50. Class- What do you think will become of Faber?

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  51. Zoe- They are trying to slowly change the world by re-spreading awareness about knowledge. But, at first, they are going to get people's attention by causing havoc.

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  52. Marco- The response Montag receives from Mildred's friends isn't even a real response. They stand their and think he is crazy for having a book. I thought the poem "Dover Beach" was a great poem for them to hear though because the poem is talking about their way of life and was is happening to them. I think that Montag kicked the friends out because he was tired of their stupidity and how little they care about things besides the TV and about things that really don't matter.

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  53. Sanjay - I never thought of that, but that seems like a good reason.

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  54. Class- I have a small feeling that Faber isn't going to end up as a protagonist. He is trying to control Montag. Do you think Faber really is trying to help Montag? As Montag pointed out, Faber seems to be a hypocrite, how he is controlling every move he makes like the government.

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  55. Sanjay- I think that definitely could have caused Beatty to want to die. I believe deep down he knew that society was corrupt and he should do something, however I think instead of taking action he just hoped someone else would act and accomplish what he wished.

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  56. Sanjay- I completely think that the fact that Beatty knew so much about books and thier history that it was eating him alive. He knew that if he expressed this to anyone but Montag that he would get in big trouble, so, in a sense, I think that that caused Beatty to "want to die".

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  57. Zoe- I believe that Faber and Montag are not trying to gain revenge as you said but are trying to spread the good that can come from literature. If they can get other people in society to recognize such knowledge, then the government will collapse under that power.

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  58. Ellen - I think he will come back to help Montag in the very end, but I don't think we'll here about him for a while.

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  59. Ellen- I think the Clarisse, he has served his purpose in the book already.

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  60. Ellie- I think that Faber will have to run in the end because he helped Montag and I hope that he will fight with Montag to make things right and show how wrong the world has become. I think that he will have to stand up to his fear in the end of the book and do what he knows is right.

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  61. Megan- I think that the significance of "the sieve and the sand" is that just like how when Montag was a child he could not fill up the sieve with sand no matter how hard he tried. This relates to the story because when Montag decides to read he is like the sieve and the knowledge is like the sand. No matter how much he reads he is not able to obtain or understand the information. This is a big part in the story because it pushes him to want to go to Faber's house to learn how to understand the information from the books but it also leads him to challenging the system.

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  62. Andrew - I think they are friends. However, Faber is more concerned about their cause then about Montag himself, so if the situation asked for it, I think Faber would turn against Montag.

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  63. Ellen- I think that as the story goes on, Faber will turn out to be just another friend in the story that will eventually just end up getting in Montag's way.

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  64. Class- Do you think Faber will keep in touch with Montag after he has run away?

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  65. Andrew- I think that's a very interesting point. I believe that Faber is a huge hypocrite because he is taking Montag's decisions and putting them down, or changing them. Almost everything that Montag has wanted to do has backfired, but at the same time, Faber was wise not to read to the women and that backfired horribly for Montag...

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  66. Andrew- I think that at first Faber did want to help Montag but after Beatty's death and the realization of all the issues at hand his motives are now not completely beneficial for Montag.

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  67. Class- How far are we from the politics of the F-451 society, where appearance and impressions matter more than opinions and character?

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  68. Cassi- I think that this encourages Montag because he is starting to not go along with what society is doing.

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  69. Alex - I think he would if it was necessary, but I don't think he would just for courtesy.

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  70. Class- Do you think that Montag's desire to keep hiding from the Hound and to live as long as he can will continue? For how long?

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  71. Class- Mrs. Phelps seemed completely ignorant and oblivious of societies corruptions, however as Montag began to read her the literature she began to cry. Why would she cry? Is it possible the book may have gotten to her?

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  72. Zoe-They are trying to challenge the system which most of society is to scared to do. By stepping up and standing up for freedom, its most likely others will follow trying to make a difference in society which just might make the world right and fair again.

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  73. Cassi- I actually believe that among many things, fire represents weakness. An excuse, cop out. It's the easy way out. Hard-work is needed along with the ability to take the "harder way oftentimes rather than the easy way". Fire leads to laziness, which definitely can't be positive for Montag's future.

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  74. Alex-I think that Faber will keep in contact with him beacuse at this point, Faber is so far into against the burning of books that he will do anything to help and if that means stay in contact with Montag, then I think he will.

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  75. Joannah - I think if he is successful he won't, but if he fails in the mission I think he will eventually become suicidal.

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  76. Joannah- Like always I think he will have to come out and face the hound. There is no way to hide from something for ever, you have to face your fear to overcome it.

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  77. Alex- Montag will deffinetely stay in touch with Faber. Faber has been a great help and will continue to be in Montag's life. He will need to go back to Faber for help.

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  78. Ellie-I would have to disagree with Joannah. I think that Faber first sparked the flame for Montag being interested in books so long ago when Montag saw him in the park with a book hidden in his jacket. Clarisse made Montag go into action but after that day he met Faber he has had the knowledge in the back of his mind about books.

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  79. Johanna- I don't think that he will be able to hide from the hound. It is such an advanced technology and can easily track his every move. It is bound to eventually catch up to him, so at some point he will have to face it.

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  80. Sanjay- I understand your point that we are a very very materialistic society and growing even more so each day. However, there are also HUGE campaigns to stop being so materialistic and to stop giving impressions and appearances and even attitudes such a high position.

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  81. Alex- Would there be any way they could connect with each other? The communicating device (the green bullet) was in Beatty's pocket when he was killed. They may attempt to link up in the future to continue their plan however.

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  82. Class- Do you think at the end of the book society will begin a change or will it stay the same?

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  83. Ellen- I think that Faber will do as he says and go to his old friend in St.Louis and actually try to return society to how it used to be. But if in a year or so it is not working I believe that he will go back to being secluded from the outer world and just watch the society continue to get worse.

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  84. Class - Bradbury seems to get rid of characters once they've served their purpose. (Clarisse, Mildred, etc.) Do you think there are any characters that will stay to the end of the book?

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  85. Colin- I think she cried simply because she was overwhelmed by the fact that reading the poetry was illegal.

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  86. Colin- I think Mrs. Phelps may have cried because now she knows just how closely linked she is to books through Mildred. Perhaps she had a struggle in the past with trying to hide her own books or she lost a loved one in a burning.

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  87. Alex- I believe that at the end it will be pretty much the same. However, I think that near the end people will start to question what they know.

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  88. Class- Even though Clarisse had a short part in the book, she had a huge impact on Montag. Do you think he's still thinking about her and what she believed in when he's making choices now? Or is he just going on fear and anger?

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  89. Class- Has our society started to go down the road that F-451 has in that a lot of the people in this country don't know anything about true politics, or why they are a good candidate but rather rely on race, age and other stereotypes?

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  90. Alex- I think that in the end, society will change, maybe not majorly, but in some way. It only takes one person to make a difference in society.

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  91. joey- I think that Montag will continue to move forward and try to keep hiding since he has been drawn so far in. I think he still has the drive to be successful but the technology and the hound have a lot of power to bring him down.

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  92. Alex- As it is right now, no. The fact that a bunch of kids actually try to run over someone would be evidence enough. This society has fallen so far that this is the norm. Listening to what Mildred's friends were saying! One of the women had children, but only thinks of them as, in her words, laundry.

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  93. Emily M. - That is an intersesting point, I think that the charaters that the story line mainly revolves around, will be the ones that stay, or die fighting for thier cause (Montag, Faber, etc.)

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  94. Emily- I think that Faber may pop up a few more times to help Montag with his mission to bring knowledge back to the world. Faber has the intelligence to create things such as the green bullet speaking device that Montag used. I believe that Faber could be really helpful and should be a big part of the book.

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  95. Alex- I think that the community will be aware of the existence of books and their content, but they might not accept them so it might stay at the same.

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  96. Alex- I predict that by the end of the book, society will be completely burned down and rebuilt with a fresh start. I have no idea how such a huge event would occur, however its hard to see their ways of society continuing to occur for another 50 years.

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  97. Sanjay I think that we are actually not that far off. For instance, there are current music artists who have a terrible singing ability, yet they are "cute" so producers continue to support them. This is like when Mildred's friends voted for the one President over the other because he looked good. Regardless of who was more intelligent, they picked the more attractive man to represent them.

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  98. Andrew-That's a really good point! What if Faber is using Montag to get into the government? Is there really people that were college professors living by train tracks? Right now his character is not developed enough where we know how much trust someone can rely in him.

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  99. Brooke - I think to an extent, but I don't think it will ever be that bad, that horrible.

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  100. Alex- I think once the book ends, society will not have yet changed but there will be a catalyst that could cause change in society. For example, Montag may die trying to get the word out about how much society needs books and it will cause an uproar among the people.

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  101. class- What is considered more dangerous? A gun? A book?

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  102. Class- Where do you think Montag will go now that he is wanted by the government? What will his next action be?

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  103. Class- Isn't it interesting that the government has enough power to get everyone to wake up simply to watch the chase for Montag?

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  104. Zoey- I think that even though Clarisse was in the story for a really short time, I think that she had a big effect on Montag and his character. I think that Montag is constantly thinking about Clarisse because it was because of her that he is now the way he is.

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  105. Zoey- I think that he still is thinking about her, but just not as much. I think that she was the fuel to the fire that really sparked this side of Montag and all of the things he's doing now.

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  106. Joannah- I actually think that Montag will continue to hide from the hound and do what it takes to survive. I believe that he will follow Faber's advice and go find the homeless people by the streams. Then he will become someone who in time will pass down his knowledge and contribute to the rebuilding of a new society. So he will survive the mechanical hound and go on to helping society return to how it used to be.

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  107. Class-Do you think Faber will be discovered by the hound?

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  108. Sarah- I have a feeling that he will, and if he is found, then wont the hound be able to track Montag even better?

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  109. Mackenzie - I think he is going to go to the "homeless houses" on the railroad track like Faber said.

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  110. Sanjay- It may be a very big deal to them, having the people watch this could be a way of showing their control and power.

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  111. Mackenzie- I have absolutely no clue where Montag is going to go next, but remember that he promised Faber that they would, in the future, meet up in St. Louis.

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  112. Alex- I believe that in the end society will change. As Joannah said it does only take one person to create change in society no matter how big or small the change is.

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  113. Zoey- I think at this time, Montag is blinded by fury over what is happening in his life but maybe soon he will cause another regrettable act and realize that he should be fighting for what Clarisse believed in, not for himself.

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  114. Amanda- In this case, a book, because even though a gun can kill, a book has the ideas that can kill and entire society.

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  115. Amamnda - That is a very interesting point. I think it is based of off what your perspective is - whether you are pro books or against books.

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  116. Class- Mildred's "friends" were talking about politics. Not the actual politics, but how attractive the presidential candidates are! Do you think the whole population of this land sees it in ways as meaningless as this? Also, do you think that some higher power in this land wanted the man named Winston Noble as president? Could they be putting Hubert Hoag in a negative light to lessen his chances? It seems as though he is being sabotaged by the media in my eyes.

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  117. Class- Will this book have a sound resolution where Montag overtakes the government and restores peace to the world? Or will the story fade out and we will never know what happens to Montag or if he changes the world?

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  118. Sanjay - Yes, it is. If you've read the Hunger Games, it reminded me of how the government could turn off the city's T.V's if they wanted to, or change the channel.

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  119. Amanda- I think a book is more dangerous in F451 because once you read it, your mind is filled with intelligence, and i think an intelligent person is more dangerous than a person with a gun.

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  120. Sarah- I think that the hound has the capability to hunt Faber down. Faber has the knowledge to try and put up a fight but I think the hounds power will overwhelm him.

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  121. Sarah-Well could they track him? The earpiece could have been burnt when Montag burn Beatty.

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  122. Sarah- I think that Faber will be eventually found by the hound, but since Faber will have cleaned the house and drenched it in other cleaning substances that the Hound will have trouble tracking down Montag, too.

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  123. Mackenzie - I think we will get an ending. Whether it is positive or negative though, I'm not sure.

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  124. Brooke- Yes. I think that a lot of people take into consideration what a person looks like before they decide which candidate to support. Obviously, we still have people who focus on what the candidate has to say rather than what their outward appearance. However, I think that the first thing people look for when they see a candidate is whether they are handsome or pretty, rather than eagerly await to hear what they will say.

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  125. Amanda- In the society that Montag lives in probably a book. I say this because if you do not have the knowledge to know how to use the gun then the gun means no harm. but if you do have knowledge than you can learn to use the gun or anything that you want to making anything and everything a weapon. So definitely knowledge is more harmful than a gun.

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  126. Sarah- I think that Faber will without a doubt be uncovered by the hound. I also don't think that he will live. I think it will be just the irony that he spent his whole life playing things safe and being a coward, that will get him killed. I think he will set an example for society though.

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  127. Andrew- I think people value everything less than they used to. They don't value intelligence, or even their children. They are happy with their existence (or they think they are) and they don't feel any need to elect a better leader to change things.

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  128. Sanjay- I think it was interesting that the government was able to wake so many people simply to watch a human being hunted down. It's like when Ralph is hunted in Lord of the Flies: The other boys get into it but when Piggy tries to share his intelligence, he gets killed. I think that if the government suddenly awoke people and told them books were no longer banned and they could read them freely, a handful of people would run to their own hidden stock of books and begin reading.

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  129. Ellen-Exactly! So do you think that there is any chance that we could ever lose the people that look for the content not the outer shell?

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  130. Sanjay- That's a good point. Right now for society the war is not as important as the hound catching Montag. Maybe its more interesting for them to see a firemen being chased down and burn his own house. It also could be the first time someone has taken a stand against the government and they are surprised by it. Its helping them to develop and question in their minds if what the government is doing is right.

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  131. Mackenzie- I believe that the book will have a ending where that it gives you a vague and cliff hanger like ending that it may seem like he may take over the government, but not enough information so that it leaves the reader thinking what might happen.

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  132. Class- I feel like Montag is bipolar because one moment he wants to help the world and the next he is killing people and harming people such as Mrs. Black who had never done anything to him. Do you think he is very confident in himself? Will he be able to achieve the peace that he wants?

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  133. Class - Isn't it odd that they have police cars roaming the whole city, but not of them spot Montag running through the whole place.

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  134. Kenzie- I think that the book will kind of fade out. Montag does not have enough supporters to take over the government and his cause is sort of lost.

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  135. Amanda- I think that a book is more dangerous. The government is putting a ton of effort into stopping people from reading them. When people read, they are smarter than those who don't. The people aren't highly educated. A gun instantly changes things, a book can spark change that can be compared to a snowball. The snowball picks up momentum and eventually will have a bigger effect on society.

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