~Class~ When Montag is in the subway, he's holding a book; doesn't anyone notice?
Amber-I think that Bradbury is showing how people are so unaware of the things around them and how they refuse to see what they don't want to see.
Amber- Yes people do notice when he starts to wave the book around, but he immediatly gets off at the next stop after people begin to notice.
Class- Will Mildred turn Montag in to the firemen in order to keep her current lifestyle or will she change her point of view?
Bekah- Yes, I think that Mildred would turn Montag in because as Brabury has made it very clear they do not have a very loving relationship. Mildred cares more about her own well being then for Montag.
Class- Is Montag's betrayal of the firemen by taking the book still a betrayal even though the betrayal is for the benefit of society? Can some betrayals bee good for society?
Class- Is challenging the system also betrayal?
Class- Does Mildred have a denial of death in the way that she never wants to talk about Clarisse's death?
Rebekah-I think that she is having a huge internal conflict over that. Ultimately I think that she will turn Montag in after she sees his plan in action.
Bekah- Mildred will most likely change her point of view to conform to Montag's views.
Elizabeth-I think that she just doesn't care at all. The whole society is very impersonal so that they don't care about anyone.
Liz- I think that Mildred does have have a denial of death. She is so focused on pleasure in that current second that she doesn't want to experience sadness.
Amber-I believe that people noticed but were too shocked to do/say anything. I books are illegal and there is someone right there with the illegal book, people would be in major shock.
Bekah- No, I dont think that challenging the system is betyal because the challege may benifit society.
Class- What is the significance of Montag's finding of the Bible and not a different book?
class- do you guys think that the cake will taste good?
~Liz~ Yes, I think that she denies what is true and all the problems in society.
Rebekah-In this society I definitely think that challenging the system is also betrayal, especially if you are a firemen who is trying to oppress challengers.
Class-How does Faber affect Montags decisions?
Alex- Is that even a question?
Lyz- I think she is too distracted to think about it by TV and other shallow things, but she is not necessarily in denial.
Bekah- Yes I think that challenging the system is also betrayal in the best form. Because it is betrayal that is bettering the community
Bekah- Yes, Montag's betrayal of the firemen is betrayal, but it inspires change, so it is good for society. Although it is against the beliefs of firemen, it helps society.
Elisabeth, I don't think she has a high enough intelligence to really comprehend death.
Class- Instant gratification is one reason that society in 451 has become the way it is. How is our society impacted by instant gratification?
Jordan- I think that the significance of finding the Bible is important because it is the last copy
~Alex~ It is delicious (:
Jordan- I think that Montag finding the bible is significant because Bradbury is trying to show his opinion that the bible is the most important book. So that would be why he choose for Montag to find this book.
Jordan- I think the bible signifies freedom. The Bible was almost the structure to society, so in return the bible could help reform the broken society
~Class~ Does Millie agree with Montag when he tells her that the parlor walls control her?
Jordan - I think that the significance of the Bible is that it is the symbol of the purist sort of enlightenment.
Class- Are Mildred's friends like Mrs. Phelps real? Or are they on the tv?
Jordan- I think it is significant that Montag finds a Bible because it is a sort of symbol of the past. It shows how things used to be. In their current time, religion is used to advertise products (pg. 81). This shows a straying from true values set by "real" people with "real" ideas.
Annabelle- There are final copies of many books, but why is the Bible more significant in this story?
Bekah- I think that challenging the system is betrayal, which is why it takes so much bravery. Hopefully, the betrayal will end up bettering things for everyone, though.
Sean-Is Mildred angered by Clarisse because she realizes that she provides him with something that she never could which is a piece of mind.
Class- Montag is trying to memorize books. Why doesn't he just keep them? Beatty will be more suspicious if books start appearing instead of staying gone.
Class- Is the end of the Postal Service a forewarning that our society is becoming more like the one in 451?
Class- Is it significant that the book Montag took was a Bible?
Class- Should Guy Monyag challenge the system? Not many others have a problem with it.
Amber- No, Mildred thinks that the walls are the most important thing. Even though they do control her Mildred is to brainwashed to believe Montag.
Amber-I think she is so controlled by them and so immersed in the technology, that she wouldn't realize if she was controlled by it.
Amber - I think that Millie doesn't believe that the parlor walls control her because the government has glorified the wall screens so people can not possibly see the parlor walls as a bad thing.
Class-what would a professor teach in this time period? Most classes use text books or literature. What would people learn?
~Shannon~ I think that it is because the bible symbolizes truth, trust, faith, and belief and that is what society needs in 451.
Class- Can Montag's potential rebellion tear apart civilization as we know it?
Annabelle- I think that keeping the books keeps him in danger because being in possession of them is against the law. I think he is so eager to figure out what he is missing that he is trying to read it all at once. We see this with the 'sieve in the sand'- you can't receive all the knowledge or truth at once.
Bekah- That is a good point I never though of that. Yes, I do think that this could be the tipping point of our society becoming like 451.
~CLASS~ Could the sieve symbolize Montag's mind and the sand is the words of the bible?
Jordan- The only way to reform society is to destroy it and build from the ground up so civilization will come into chaos.
Allison-I think Montong is already in the process of challenging the system. He is at the professor's house, learning how to understand what he is reading. This is the starting of a revolution.
Class-When Faber talks to Montag about tv parlors and how they force information down your throat so fast that you can't begin to refute it, does that relate to our society (especially the media) today?
Alison - I don't think there is a clear answer for your question. Even though Guy has the ability to change his society for the greater good, people will not see him as a hero, they will see him as a tyrant who took over the world they knew. So the question really is whether or not Guy wants to suffer the consequences if he tries to change his world.
Jordan- I think that Montag's rebellion will either spark a rebellion or fail totally and he will become a tragic hero. Either way, I think that Montag himself will ultimately fail but spark a bigger revolution by starting these new ideas circulating.
Does each item in each chapter title symbolize a big part of Montags life?
Delaney- I don't think that they do. Knowledge is not valued in their society. In fact the government wants to eliminate it. So I don't think they really learn anything other than necessary things to function. I think they probably stop after our equivalent of elementary school.
Alison- Are there even teachers? And if there are then they must teach with tvs and videos, with lots of propoganda.
Bekah- The end of the postal service, as well as the lessening use of newspaper is showing the we are more dependent on technology, but this does not necessarily foreshadow the society that Ray Bradbury is making. However, he in a way is prophesying that society will be more and more dependent on this technology and that nobody will care about their natural lives any longer. We should proceed with caution into the future and keep his warning into mind.
Rebekah- There is some talk about the postal service going out of business, we would still have UPS and FedEx. I think that Ray Bradbury wrote this book to show us what could happen with the advancement of technology.
~Alison~ I think that the different chapter titles are showing the progress Montag is making away from destroying books with fire.
Class- Going back a little, the government is trying to eliminate problems, since jobs in the world always have problems, what do you think, if any, jobs would be like?
Class- With the gov in 451 do they have the view that "you are with us or against us" in the way that if you challenge the system your possesions are burned.
Amber- I think that the sand doesn't just represent the words of the Bible, it represents new ideas that he is not used to being exposed to. Any and all ideas pour into and out of his head from the books.
Alison- I don't know about that but I think that the Sand and the Sieve means that knowledge the books contain and Montag's mind, or in some way, society.
Do people have friends? Are there social gatherings?
Alex- Jobs are probabaly very similar to each other in the fact that they are all highly manipulated by the government.
Delany- I think that they don't have school in that time period, and that they learn from the t.v.
Elizabeth- I don't think that is what their government is like, the government is trying to make people happy so they burn books. If a rebellion forms they will react but I don't think they will burn people and their possessions to kill the rebeliion
For those who have read The Giver by Lois Lowry- How does the society in The Giver compare to the society in Fahrenheit 451? How does the government restrict people in both stories?
Delaney- Well since people don't really talk to each other I would say no. I think their "friends" are their TVs.
Delaney-It doesn't really seem like it. With technology playing such a big role in human life, it drags people away from being social and friendly.
Grant- I don't think that relates to our society because more and more news stations are becoming more and more biased so people will always have their opinions about which station is better than another. I think that the day that people stop favoring one news station over another will be the day when news stations begin to just give straight facts to audiences.
~Elizabeth~ Yes, I think that the government is very strict because it doesn't want to loose its grip on society and it rules by fear LIKE Macbeth was doing and Jack (LoF) was doing too.
Elizabeth-I definitely think so, the government squashes rebellions almost instantly by burning books.
Delaney- I doubt that there are social gatherings because people like Mildred are so obssessed with tv and their own tv friends and family, so they never actually see reall people
Delaney- I think that they do because Mildred was having friends over to watch the programs.
Alex-I don't think there are very many jobs. Millie doesn't seem to have a job. Other then working for the government, there aren't any jobs that can't be done by technology.
Sophia-I don't think the news and tv in Fahrenheit 451 is necessarily facts, I think it is propaganda.
Jordan- Both governments limit people's freedom and take away things that should be their right: knowledge and color.
Class: Is Montag the "good guy"?
*Class* What makes Faber stand out to Montag? Why will he always remember him as he will always remember the old women?
Delaney- Their social gatherings are their "family" in the parlor, and their telephones to communicate. They do not go the the extent of going out and seeing others.
~Class~ 451's government, Jack, and Macbeth all rule by fear. Are there any other similarities?
class- is technology good or bad?
Jordan- I was thinking about that when I was reading, I feel that it is the same. Books are like the Giver, they contain the memories of the past. I think that both governments are about the same, they want to control everything and how people think.
Alison- Yes, I think that Montag is a good guy from an outsiders viewpoint. Alough in his society he will be seen as a bad guy who is challenging the government.
Amber- I think some other huge similarities have to do with the visible decline and fall of society whether it be shown by one group or shown in one person. I also think that it shows how power can make monsters out of people and out of life.
Amber- All three governments rule by total and complete control.
alex- there are different perspectives and it depends on how its used. I think its good.
Jordan- The Giver relates to Fahrenheit 451 in that both societies are controlled by the government completely and there is no joy left in life. (Color is taken away in The Giver and enjoying nature is absent from life in Fahrenheit 451)
Alex- Technology is good to a certain extent. Like Nick said "people are in the hallways listening to their IPods and not being social". You have to know when it is to much.
Alison- I think he is. He is definitely the protagonist. At this point it looks like he us going to rise above and challenge the system, and since the system is so bad, I think that is a heroic action. I don't think that people will necessarily think of him as the good guy, but I think that he is.
Alex- It depends on what you use the technology for, and how much you use and depend on it.
~Liz~ Faber was the first person who inspired Montag to start collecting books instead of burning them all. He mentions 'the old man in the park' at the beginning of the book and that old man in Faber. Both Faber and the old women showed great strength and protection over books that it shocked Montag.
Class - As the book goes on we see more and more of Mildred's savage nature by wanting to kick or run over dogs. Is this a subconscious act of anger towards the government and she doesn't even realize it?
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Class- If the government wants the books gone, why would they keep them where the firemen have a chance to steal them like Montag did?
Alison- It really depends on what side you are on, because if you are on the firemens' viewpoint, then you see Guy Montag as the antagonist, starting the war, but if you are on his side, you can see what he is getting at, and see how awesome he is.
Class- What is the significance of Faber's comment on page 86, "'The salamander devours his tail!'"
Sophia- I think that Mildred's savage nature is just because she doesn't know better. She is so focused on herself that all she is looking for is pleasure. Just like Bradbury said, she is childlike.
Class - Has the self indulgence in this society already caused people around the world to dislike the United States?
Annabelle- They don't keep them. The burn them. That is the purpose of the firemen. Montag took the book before they started the fire.
Amber-I feel that here may be a downfall in Montag, a flaw that lead to his downfall. After a revolution, after irreversible changes, Montag will fall.
~Annabelle~ I think they trust the firemen. The firemen are supposed to be 'salamanders' and live in the fire and the fire is bad. The government thinks that firemen are against books. All the firemen are, except Montag, and now it's Beatty responsibility to put Montag back in his place: destroying books, not saving them.
Class-If we don't want to end up in the society Montags in, what do we need to change?
Class- Do you think the chief knows that Montag has the books? If he does do you think the chief wants Montag to change the world?
Anabelle- I think that the govment isnt keeping the books where they are avalible to firemen. Montag has stolen these books.
Jordan- I think that 'the salamander devouring his tail' is irony because it is saying that a fireman has turned against his own. Change is internal.
~Class~ Bradbury uses white doves, pigeons, and butterflies to symbolize books. What does this mean?
James- I don't think that people are angry at the United States, I think that they are confused at how we are able to do all that we can and that they don't understand everything that we have.
James- I believe that yes, the world does not much like the United States if they are poor, starving, third world nations, with us in our egotistical richness. But do we know that this country that the people in 451 live in is the United States?
~Nick~ I think that Beatyy (the chief) just simply wants Montag to get rid of the books and go back to his job of burning them.
James- Every country has its enemies and allies however people that are mad at the US and if they are mad at our self indulgence than they just move into the US to become happy
Nick- I think the chief is the most complex character. He almost seems sarcastic when he talks about books being banned. I think that deep down inside, he actually does want Montag to change the world.
Nick- I do think that Beatty knows that Montag has the books, but he just wants Montag to get the books out of his system and they going back to being the "perfect" citizen.
Class-What is determining happiness in Montag's society and in our own?
Class- What is the significance that society stopped reading before the government banned it?
Nick- I think that the chief does know that Montag does have books, but he does not know how many. The chief wants Montag to explore but he doesn't think that Montag will be interested in any of it.
Nick-I think that chief does know that Montag has the books, he is ignoring the fact because I believe that he wants change too. He wants Montag to start the change and I believe that he will join in help the change.
Class-It seems to me that Montag and Faber are relying on the curiosity of other firemen around them to make theit plan of distributing books without really getting caught. Is this a realistic plan? Will their idea actually work?
Amber- I think that Bradbury describes books in this way because he wants to get across the point that books are good!
Alison-That is a question that requires lots of thought. I think that people need to care about others much more. As you will notice in Fahrenheit 451, everybody is concerned about themselves and maybe their closest relative. Notice that Mildred doesn't care that Clarisse has died, and just wants to get back to her normal life. Also, I think that people need to rely less on technology and think for themselves. Look how people right papers today. Many search for their subject on the internet, rephrase or even copy what it says, and call it good. If we rely on others' ideas and don't produce our own new ideas, where will society end up?
Alison- I think that Bradbury uses butterflies and doves to symbolize books to show that they are good and innocent.
Amber- Bradburry represents books as birds and butterflies because birds are free and peaceful. Books bring peace to the readers and don't cause problems
Nick- We don't know if Captain Beatty knows about Montag's books, but even if he does, he would not be angry about it until the situation got really bad. He did say that every fireman had an itch that they needed to scratch. Once it gets out of hand, he will take it down.
Amber - I think Ray Bradbury uses words like doves or butterflies to describe books because he wants readers know the true innocence of books and how they are not as evil as Montag's society says they are.
Jackie- In Montag's society happiness is a very superfical thing. "Happiness" comes quickly but also goes quickly, leading them to always need more instant gratification. Our society may start to lead towards this.
Shannon- Great question. I think they will have to play their plan very carefully, but I think deep inside every firemen is a seed of doubt that needs to be watered(helped by Faber and Montag) and exposed to their ideas(sunlight). Their plan will take lots of work, but I think it will triumph.
~Class~ Birds are free and books want to be free. When the firemen burn a book, are they not only destroying the books' freedom, but are they also destroying societies freedom too??
Class- If society knows the information that the government was hiding by burning the books, what would the outcome be?
Class- If Montag doesn't know how to learn then will Fber become his teacher?
Class- How does Beatty have such amazing knowledge of books?
liz- what do you think currently makes happiness in out society?
Shannon - I don't believe this plan will work because people are so afraid that "important" things in their society like televisions will be taken away if they give into reading books, so they will do everything in their power to make sure books stay illegal so they can keep their life the way it is.
Amber- I think that they are because if the people, society, books etc. are suppose to be free, then burning the houses, people, books, etc. is ruining the freedom that they have.
Class-Montag obviously is a "newbie" to books, but he sees something in them, what is it?
~Rebekah~ Good question, I was wondering that too. I think he is secretly wondering about books and owns some himself, too.
Elizabeth- yes Faber will become Montag's teacherRebekah- Beatty knows so much about books because he was taught the history of the job of a fireman whereas the other fireman weren't taught the history
Rebekah- I think that Beatty is just fed the answers that will not cause conflict by the government.
Jordan- I think that society would become less absorbed with tv and become more involved with what was happening in real life. For example, they would take more interest in the atomic wars that are happening. Class- What tipped the edge and made the world resort to atomic bombs? Who decided to go to war if the people don't care?
Bekah-I think that Beatty has such a vast knowledge because he has read many and he wanted to understand the reasoning of why it was his job to burn them. Why was Beatty not pushed to chakllenge the system in the way that Montag is?
Jacqueline, knowledge, comfort, all make happiness in our society.
~Grant~ I think Montag sees that books provide a secret gate to free society from a tyrant-like government system.
Rebekah - I think Beatty has such a vast knowledge of books because, in a way, he is like the mechanical hound. Being a fireman, he has to know what it is he is burning. In other words, he has to know what it is that he is destroying and how it will affect or not affect society.
Amber-But he doesn't even understand things that the books say.
Grant- I think that Montag is looking at the books to fill in the missing pieces of his life. For example, love and happiness. He has recognized that something is missing in society and is trying to fill in the blank.
Jordan- I think if the idea of books got out into the world people would start to become very curious then leading to overthrowning of the government.
Inner Circle- In the book they talk about how people were moving away from literature but you all are blaming it on the government, was the government just implementing the ideas of people?
Bekah- Beatty has such a gigantic knowledge of the books that he burns because like he told Montag, there is an itch that every fireman needs to scratch. How would he know about that itch if he never scratched it himself?
~Grant~ Maybe he is just curious about the books. When the old women died with her books, he realized there must be something in the books worth dying for. But, like you said, he doesn't understand, so he goes to Faber for help.
Class-Why do we publicize to much of our life via blog, twitter, FB, etc.?
Grant- That is a great question and I believe he sees happiness in them. When he first met Clarisse he asked himself if he was happy and and answered with a no. Once that lady burned herself alive he started asking what could make someone want to die for an object. He thinks that an unnatural happiness exists in books and he wants to find it.
Jackie- I think that in our society we still are happy with seeing our friends and family face to face. Although technology does please us as well.
Grant-I think that Montag sees that books are hiding something big and he wants to figure out what that is. He knows that there is something that is hidden from society and Montag wants to know what that is. He has been burning books his whole life. I think he wants to know why.
Liz- Going off of what you told Jordan, If the books get out, wouldn't the people only want to overthrow the government if it tries to take the books away from the people?
Class - I noticed while reading that as Montag explores his curiosity about books that he becomes more in-tuned with nature. Is being in-tuned with nature a symbol of enlightenment?
Class- As the inner circle said, when do we actually express our true feelings? Do people actually care, and how did we reach this point?
~Sophia~ Yes! And also, Clarisse is the one who started that enlightenment by making him notice the moon and the dew on the grass in the morning.
Alison- I think we post so much about our life on FB etc. because we don't have to deal with any of the emotional hardship that may go along with that post. All you have to do is typee and then post and it is out there and that can make us feel better, having that out there.
Sophia- I think that it is because he does not enjoy the t.v. and he is trying to find and escape from reality to become happy and I think his way of doing that is from books.
Alison - I think that, more than anything else, people publicize their actions and beliefs through things like Twitter or Facebook because want what is easy. It is easier to post something on your Facebook wall and have everyone stumble upon it rather than to go out in person and spread the word.
Jacqueline(I am answering the Inner Circle Question)- Bradbury did mention that the people wanted to get rid of the books because they stopped reading it. It may be the government destroying the books, but according to Captain Beatty, the people wanted to get rid of the books. However, this does not mean that the government had no influence.
Sophia- Yes, I think that nature is a symbol of enlightenment. For example, Clarisse and her family like to take walks and enjoy nature, and they were enlightened. The nature is natural, uncontrolled. The guy in the Pedestrian also recognized that nature= enlightenment.
Anabelle- Yes I think that once the people get a little piece of books that they will want more and more. Like eating a piece of chocolate your can't just have a bite.
Bekah- Do people only ask and care to be polite because I think alot of people are turning into Mildred and they are so self absorbed that people see then as like a nice polite caring person but in all actuality they really have no concern for others and the people within their society.
Class- How does Montag change Faber's point of view?
Class- Do you think that society will want to return to knowledge through books? Or will they prefer a life of ignorance?
Class- ANY CLOSING THOUGHTS?
Class - What is more dangerous in Montag's society a gun or a book? I think that a book is more dangerous because a gun only has so many bullets to hurt people while ideas that stem from a book are like contagious diseases that can't be arrested and put behind bars.
Liz- THAT CAKE WAS YUMMY. And I'm interested tpo see what happens now.
Bekah- I think they will go on with kowledge.