Monday, October 24, 2011

451 136-179 Period 3

151 comments:

  1. Elizabeth- I do not think the war is over, I think Bradburry was just showing some of bombings. However, the war will soon be over

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  2. Class- Why did Ray Bradbury choose to end the book so abruptly?

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  3. Liz-The reader doesn't really know what the war is over. I think that we don't know this because it isn't that important to Montag and the society.

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  4. Class- How does war make new thoughts/ideas possible?

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  5. Class- Could the repetition be signifying that society is basically a robot, controlled by hand by the government?

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  6. Class- In the Afterword, there is a story about Beatty and how he owns books and shows them to Montag. Do you agree with this alternate story?Looking back does it make sense to you?

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  7. Class - Montag's thoughts slow down when he is surrounded by things that are real. In his society, do all the invented things make the society move 100 miles a minute?

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  8. Elizabeth- I
    think that the war could be over books. Maybe some counties do not believe in the banning of books, and they are angry at Montag's country. They go to war over books in order to make each other see it from their point of view.

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  9. Class- Toward the end of the book Bradbury leaves a lot of dramatic pauses in the book, like the newspeople counting to ten for the people to emerge from their homes, why is that?

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  10. Alex- I think he ended it so abruptly to make a point. Not to wrap everything up nice and neat with a little bow on top, but leave his audience reeling! To make them think it over more and understand.

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  11. Ruth- Great question! War makes new thoughts possible because it gives both sides or ideas about disagreements between different groups.

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  12. Ruth- The war makes room for new decisions and clears away the old rubble of the old world, and makes room for the new. To reform a society, you must get rid of what is in the way to begin with.

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  13. Class-Montag does not feel very much sorrow for Mildrid, how do you feel about her death, do you care very much?

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  14. Alex- I think Bradburry ended so abruptly because he wanted the reader to make up their own ending and give something for the reader to think about.

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  15. Grant - It makes a lot of sense to me because Beatty was quoting a lot of books. he has to read books to know the quotes. He knew so much.

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  16. Ruth-The war destroyed many things and killed many people. Without the tv screens and seashells working, the people of this society are empty and don't know what to do. Therefore, people like Montag can come in and help them to see the truth.

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  17. Alex- I think that he ends the book so abruptly so that we could ask questions, and continue the book in a way that makes the most sense to us.

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  18. Grant- Yes, I do believe this story, I think Beatty really did have books and wanted to share that with Montage, he was just to afraid.

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  19. Ruth- The war destroyed everything in the society including all of the former rules. There would be nothing left, a blank slate. You could easily re-do society into a better or worse way. In fact a previous war could have been the reason why the "anti-book" society was created.

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  20. Nick- I don't really care for Mildred, to me she was just a robot who did nothing.

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  21. Monica- yes this is a good point,the "going through the motions" aspect of society existed until clarisse and montag came.

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  22. Grant-As I was reading that, I thought the same thing. I think that Bradbury added it at the end because he wanted to give the reader some background on Beatty after the book was over. I think that it can be very helpful to explain what goes on in Beatty's mind and how he became who he is in the book.

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  23. Class- Does montag feel pity/love for his wife? It seemed so when he was talking about the bomb.

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  24. Alex-Bradbury ended the book so abruptly to leave you wondering and to create "your own" future for the society.

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  25. Class- On page 155, Montag states regarding Mildred, "'Even if she dies, I realized a moment ago, I don't think I'll feel sad.'" Why is this?

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  26. Nick - I do not care very much because she just wanted to be like everybody else. She didn't want to be different. She was rude to Montag. And she was going to die anyways because of her drug addiction. She acted innocent, but really wasn't.

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  27. Class- Was Millie right to desert Montag?

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  28. Class- Everybody imagines the future as some amazing world that we all want to be apart of, why does Bradburry make out the future to be so dark and terrible?

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  29. Class- In the afterword of my copy of Fahrenheit 451 Bradbury tells of how when he re-wrote the play years later he had it so that Clarisse had joined the rebels. Is this better or worse than the original fate of Clarisse?

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  30. Nick- Yes, I don't really care that Mildred died because she was never a nice character. I felt momentarly sad that she died, but not for her, but for Montag because right as she dies he remembered how he met her.

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  31. Nick- I honesty pity her, she missed out on life and now she is dead. Its so sad that all the people killed in the bombings never got to really enjoy their life. That point I think is something that we should take to heart, not to be so busy for our lives but enjoy the simple things or get out and enjoy the world,its beauty.

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  32. Sean-I think that Montag has confused emotions for his wife. He can't decide if he loves her (dandelion and not crying if she dies), but I do think he feels lots of pity. He feels pity because she never understood the problems in the society and she was fully immersed in it.

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  33. Sean- Look at my question that refers to page 155. It shows how he does not care.

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  34. Allison- I think Millie was right to leave Montag. Neither of them cared about each other so they both wouldn't care if the other was gone.

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  35. Alex B. - Maybe Bradbury had a dark view on his present time so that was reflected in his views of the future.

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  36. Sean- I think that when he was following along with the society and firemen he felt zero pity for Mildred. Then once he is free and able to think for himself, he realized that he was married and now he has lost someone that was once all he had. GREAT QUESTION!

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  37. Sean- I do not think that he feels anything for his wife, I think he believes that nothing truly happened because she was not a very big part of his life.

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  38. Alex- I think by killing Clarisse off, Montag then does start to think for himself more. if Clarisse had lived then Montag would be following her.

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  39. Sean-I think that at the end when Montag is talking about Mildred and how much he misses her, I think that he remembers why he married her in the first place and why he fell in love with her. I think that he had to get away from her to realize what she had become, so that he could remember what she was before. I think that he was in love with the old her, but the 'parlors' changed her into a person that he didn't love. He loved the old her, but he didn't know that until he got away from her.

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  40. Class, like Amber just asked, was montag truly happy at the end of the novel? What do you think?

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  41. Alex- I think that it is for the better. She had some very different views on society. Her views were much different than the average citizen, much like the rebels. She is now with people who share her views on books, and she can help the cause.

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  42. Alison- Mildred did what she thought was right. For her, this was what she had to do, and was not desertion. Depending on your definition of what is right, and where you see Montag in this situation makes the desertion right or wrong.

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  43. Alex D. - I think it is better because she started the revolution in Montag's mind, so she needed to be there to keep it going. She was such a big part in the beginning that I missed her in the rest of the book.

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  44. Alison- It really depends on which point of view you are looking from. The governments she did the right thing, but from the book readers and professors, she did the wrong thing. She did what she though was right.

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  45. Class- Granger and the rest of the rebels are so calm about the nuclear holocaust, why is this?

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  46. Allison- I don't think Montag was happy throughout the entire book. In the end I still don't think he is happy but I do think he is starting to gain hope for the future.

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  47. Alex B- I think that Bradbury makes the future sound so bad, to motivate our generation and the future and past generations that read this to do something and make sure that our future does not turn out like this.

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  48. Alex D. - They disagree with it so instead of being scared of it, they are angry at it which keeps them calm during all the chaos.

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  49. Alex B-I think the society in Fahrenheit 451 is so dark and terrible because he was being realistic. In the Coda, you can see that Bradbury is a very straightforward, brutally honest sort of person. I think although we fear it, the society in Fahrenheit 451 is a distinct possibility for our world if we do not take preventative measures.

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  50. Alex- I think that Clarisse joining the rebels would actually be a worse ending. Bury kills her off to show the higher power of the government. They will do whatever they need to sustain power and whoever gets in their way will no doubt be taken out of the way. That is a great question and really got me thinking.

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  51. Alison- By the end of the novel, Montag has reached his point of being content. He cannot be happy, as his wife died, Faber died, and all he knew is dead. He cannot be happy through this, but he can reshape the world now because the bomb leveled the city and the government control. He has reached the point where he knows what to do.

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  52. Class- Do you think that Clarisse was apart of the walking men who have books in their minds? Because Clarisse did mention the railroads.

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  53. Class- Was social change accomplished?

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  54. Alex- I believe that the rebels are so at ease about the war because they figured that it would happen sooner than later.

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  55. Alison- I think that he may not be happy, but he is not sad. He was sad at the begging at the book, because he was seeing the world differently than the average citizen. He may not be completely happy, but he is happier than he was at the beginning pf the book.

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  56. Alex- I think they seem so calm because this has probably happened before and it is over very quick. I think the book said that this was a 48 hour war.

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  57. Class-What is the deal with the war? Why is it so important in the book?

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  58. Class- On page 155, Montag states regarding Mildred, "'Even if she dies, I realized a moment ago, I don't think I'll feel sad.'" Why is this?

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  59. Alex- I think they knew it was going to happen, it was inevitable. They were not glad it happened, more a resigned acceptance.

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  60. Alex D- I believe the rebels knew that a bomb was coming along with war. They seemed to know a lot about the future so they felt no need to react since history repeats itself.

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  61. Macy- I've never made that connection before and I think it very well might be true. Good observation.

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  62. Class- Will Montag ever learn that he has to deal with the consequences of his own actions instead of blaming another or his hands?

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  63. Class - I want to know your idea on this society. Are all the cities in the world like this or is this the only place? In the future, would this society be the U.S.? And if it is the only society like this, how does it affect the rest of the world? What is this society? What is this world?

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  64. Alison-I think societal change was not accomplished, but was set up for success after the end of the war.

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  65. Alison- Without a doubt, I think he was happy. Partly because he can think for himself and also that he was among his own kind and finally able to not worry about being turned into authorities.

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  66. Grant- I don't know if the war is really all that important. I think that it just shows how easily the society and the world can be destroyed, in a 48 hour war. I think that it is really just a symbol for how weak the world is.

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  67. Jordan- I think that Montag won't be sad if Mildred dies because he has relized that he doesn't love her and that he has never loved her.

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  68. Grant- Is F451 set up for another following book then?

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  69. Alison- I do not think that social change was completely accomplished. Although there city has burned down and the rebels will most likely take over, social change will not be possible if the citizens go along with it. Although the bombing was a new start, they will have to convince the citizens in order for social change to be accomplished.

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  70. Jordan- Montag was never in love with Mildred, and as the story went on I think he kept losing the recognition that she was a real person.

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  71. Class- What is the significance of the phenoix in the end of the book?

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  72. Grant- Well being in war shows that their society is not a utopia and still has problems. It also is a necessary action in order for the professors to talk to the people, to change their society. Not a good thing but a necessary one.

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  73. Liz - Society burns itself and then is reborn again; new.

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  74. Class- Did anyone make major connections between the Lord of the Flies creature, Hallucinations, and the Mechanical Hound? Cuz I sure did!!

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  75. Macy- True, but does it also symbolize a new beginning? Montag and his buddies seemed hopeful after the bombing. I agree with your statement but it seems more important than that.

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  76. Monica- Heck ya! All the time connections popped up with my banned book "The Hunger Games" as well.

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  77. Class - I want to know your idea on this society. Are all the cities in the world like this or is this the only place? In the future, would this society be the U.S.? And if it is the only society like this, how does it affect the rest of the world? What is this society? What is this world?

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  78. Emma- I think our society hasn't reached this point yet. I think that if we stay on the same path we are on now that we will become like this society.

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  79. Liz- Granger states that the phoenix dies and becomes a pile of ashes and then a new, younger phoenix emerges from the ashes. This represents how the future society is in the book. It's very old and it eventually becomes destroyed (by the bombs) and becomes a "pile of ashes", literally. The book hints that Montag, Granger, and the rebels will help create a new better society, a better society that emerges from the ashes.

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  80. Emma- I think that this society is not the only one like it in the world. Like in one of my previous comments, I think that the war is over the banning and burning of books. I think that it is possible that our society could possibly turn into theirs if we do not slow down. If technology continues to advance, and us with it, then our society will soon become like the on in the book.

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  81. Elizabeth- Well in mythology, a Phoenix is a bird who after it reaches maturity bursts into flame, and in its ashes it is reborn as a chick. It sorta signifies how history repeats itself and once we figure out what we did wrong we "burst into flame" and we have to figure it out again. History repeating itself.

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  82. Liz - what can we do to change in our society to prevent this from happening?

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  83. Alison has a great point, does Bradbury actaully set up a lead in for a further book?

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  84. Monica-Yes I totally agree this book was so much like Lord of the Flies and Macbeth.

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  85. Elizabeth- I think the phoenix symbolized the quote, "History repeats itself." The phoenix does the same thing over and over again and that's what the society keeps doing.

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  86. Monica-Yes I did. Both the beast and the hound are scary and frightening figures and in both stories the people are so scared of them. People are trying to get keep away from them.

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  87. Liz- The phoenix represents their society. Like the phoenix, they died, but will rise again to make the same mistakes.

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  88. Emma- I think that we need to change our dependence on materialistic things like tv, and learn and understand the importance of real family and friends.

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  89. Class- Isn't it ironic that a society that lives to burn was burned to death?

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  90. I think the phoenix also represents the city burning. The city has burned down, and it must return from the ashes in order to return to its greatness.

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  91. Class- Montag talks about how the sun burns up time, is he blaming the sun for time being taken away instead of taking the blamee himself?

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  92. Class- Whats going to happen if kids in 2081 read this book? Will society really turn out like this>

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  93. Alex D.- I never thought of that. That is extremely ironic. Good observation!

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  94. Alex-Yes it is ironic. I think that these people might have had it coming. They burn lots of things and are very inconsiderate, maybe this is why another country went to war with the United States. Maybe another country hates how ignorant we are.

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  95. Class- Does anyone think that their is a possible opportunity that Faber was a part of the rebel group. Also, I want to hear your ideas on what you all think happened to Faber eventually.

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  96. Alex-I don't think that the society living for burning was burned to death because like Beatty said, fire is pure and the only way to allow society to rebuild itself for the better (Montag's ideas) was for it to be burned down completely.

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  97. Alison - we also have to consider that when they read this book, their society might already be like this.

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  98. Alex- I think that Bradbury purposely wrote that the people were burned to death, because teh had it coming for them.

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  99. Alex- I think that it was inevitable for the city to burn. Once the books are all gone, then the firemen will have nothing to do. The government will find something else to ban, and soon the whole city will be banned and burned.

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  100. Class- Will granger have his books printed, and if so, then will society change and seen that they are good.

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  101. Allison- If Bradburry's future comes true, then kids in 2081 will not be reading books. Also since society is relying on technology so much I wonder if people will still have time to stop and read a book or a newspaper article.

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  102. Alison- (What if kids in 2082 read it? Just kidding.) I think that the world will be more like Bradbury's world. Look at even today we are progressively going towards that fate.

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  103. Class- Is Granger's phoenix comparison to the human race relevant to today's world?

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  104. Monica- Yes, I think that it is a very plausible idea that Faber have at once been with the rebels. Faber may have even been a rebel that returned to the city to gather knowledge (new books) to return this information back to the country.

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  105. Class- To quote Ms. Smith, why do governments create war?

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  106. Alison- If society is like this, then they wont read it because the book will be illegal.

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  107. Alex B. and Allison - Today, we have ipads and kindles where our reading is "electronicsized". People would rather watch movies and TV than read books. From the looks of it now, our interest in reading is slowly decreasing.

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  108. Sean- Good question, but in the future I think society will almost skip printing books to get satellites back up and tv working. However I don't think they will go back to burning books, they will just ignore them.

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  109. Alex- So that they president can become more popular. Like in the book the people dont even notice it. When do we think about the war in Iraq or Iran?

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  110. Alex D. - Because they are scared. They are scared of losing their power so they scare other countries to keep that power.

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  111. Alison- I think it will be very interesting to read this book in 2081 because that is when the book is taking place so it will be intresting to see how our world does turn out.

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  112. Alex D- Think about what Faber was talking about when the police were chasing "Montag." The government needs excitement to capture the people for their own reasons.

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  113. Alex- We create war to help strong countries rise up and let other counties fall. When a country wins a war they are paid reparations, so they earn money along with some nationalistic pride in one's country. The country that loses has to pay money and becomes even weaker than before the war.

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  114. Alison- It doesn't matter how many charts, graphs, or any other sort of calculations you make. We can't even tell what the weather will be tomorrow! ;) Ultimately it isn't in our hands, but in the hands of our children. All we can do is try to teach our children to think outside the box. I wouldn't worry about it cause its in God's hands, and he is very capable of handling any mistakes we make. I apologize if I offended any one with me connecting religion to English class. No offense intended!

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  115. Class- When Montag, Granger, and their band rebuild the city and perhaps the world, what will it be like?

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  116. Alex- I think government may create war for the reasons just like Mrs. Smith said. They would create war to distract others from different topics.

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  117. Class - In the society in the book, so minds decrease or increase more to adapt (not reading or photographic memory)?

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  118. Alex- Governments create war because they are never happy with peace. Peace is like silence. For example, if you sat in a sound proof room with the lights turned off and you weren't supposed to say anything for just 5 minutes, it would make you very uncomfortable, I guarantee it. Wars, violence, and activities are like noise to the government and if there is nothing going on, they get antsy.

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  119. Jordan - It will be all about knowledge and intelligence.

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  120. Jordan- I am not sure exactally what the society will be like, but one thing is for sure, books won't be banned.

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  121. Jordan- The world will be similar but with some change. Everyone will still hate books but maybe the people of America will learn form their mistakes and improve upon themselves.

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  122. Class- What is the significance of meeting the men on the railroad track? How in history is the railroad used for defiance? Did Brabury use this on purpose?

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  123. Jordan- I think they will try to gather a community together, it will take centuries to build a well working society, but I believe they will create a society similar to ours where technology is present and books are not being burned.

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  124. Class- We may feel like 2081 is very far away, but we could still be alive then, and if we are, and society goes downhill as Bradburry predicts, we need to be the ones who change society. We can't tell other generations to make sure this doesn't happen. We need to stop anything that might lead to a bookless society.

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  125. Class-When the men from the railroad come back to the city, do you think people will except them and rewrite the books, or will they just let them disappear?

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  126. Jordan- It depends on who is in charge.

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  127. Jordan- Great idea! When I read that comment I thought of rebellions that have been mentioned before. I think there is a really good chance that the rebels will become the rulers and eventually this might turn corrupt.

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  128. Jordan-I think if they were successful in rebuilding the world, I think that it would again become similar to our society where we do produce new ideas and read books instead of having a society completely dominated by technology.

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  129. Jordan- I think that if the rebels rebuild the society, that it will be much like our society today. Books will be unbanned, and maybe the would will slow down. People will stop and take the time to read a book.

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  130. Class - In the society in the book, so minds decrease or increase more to adapt (not reading or photographic memory)?

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  131. Alison- Exactally, we are the ones who need the change this, because the fate of the world is in our hands.

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  132. Macy- I believe that books will be accepted. It seems like the book goes in a full circle. Books began as stories, passed down from generation to generation. That's probably what the new society will have, they'll have books but not in physical form.

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  133. Alison - but how do we even know society will turn out like this? It could improve.

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  134. Alison- I agree, if we are the ones who remember in the future "how it was" we can't describe it to our children, we have to make sure society stays this way.

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  135. Alison- That is such a great point. I think Bradbury is trying to tell us that WE need to take charge and not just pass on how important things are but make them important in our present lives.

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  136. Macy- I think they will return to society, but society will not let books return to society because they have yet to recognize that burning books is a problem, right now they think the war was the downfall, not the book burnings.

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  137. Liz- this is very true, but we can't keep blaming hands. Its our brains and minds that decide what our hands do. Good point though!

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  138. Emma-That is an interesting perspective. Instead of having technology hurt us, it could be used to better living.

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  139. Alison- Oh! you are right! We will be rather old, but still possible alive! YES! 84-86 years olds! :) My mistake! :)

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  140. Emma- Yes, the rebels tell Montag that even if he doesn't have a photografic memory he will be able to recall the book if needed. They are almost saying that you will never lose knowledge.

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  141. CLass- when or if the rebels rebuild, will then war still continue?

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  142. Emma, you're right, we don't know what will happen, but if we don't want society to go downhill, its US that needs to stop it, and protect our current society just in case...

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  143. Sean-I think the war is over like the government said "in 48 hours".

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  144. Emma- I feel that the people in this society conform to whatever the government gives them. When the government takes all forms of knowledge, they do not need their minds any longer, so their brain probably goes down in usage and intelligence.

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  145. Grant- In response to your answer to Sean- Is the war really ever over in this society?

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  146. Sean- This specific war is only supposed to last 48 hrs, but I think that there will continue to be wars in the future.

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  147. Class - Why is the government so controlling?

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  148. Sean- It is possible that the war will be between the rebels and government.

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