Monday, October 24, 2011

451 136-179 Period 5

130 comments:

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  2. class- Can you make people listen?

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  3. Class- What is your response to Bradbury's prediction of the future? Do you think his predictions are true so far?

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  4. Class- I never really saw any concrete evidence that their country won the war. They only saw one city destroyed. Do you think that they actually did lose or win the war? Also, if they did lose, will men like Granger be welcomed back into the new society created after?

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  5. Class - On page 137, in reference to the Hound, it states, “The procaine needle flicked in and out, out and in. A single clear drop of the stuff of dreams fell from the needle as it vanished in the Hound’s muzzle.” What does Montag mean by “the stuff of dreams”? Could he be referring to the horror of the medicine in the needle, and how it only appears in nightmares? Or is it just a sleeping medicine, and the victim dies from an over dose of sleeping medicine?

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  6. Emily- I think if the person feels threatened, then yes, but you can't make them tell the truth.

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  7. Taylor- I think Montag is saying that the "stuff of dreams" makes you so out of it and reality that you do not know exactly what is going on.

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  8. Emily- I think that you can definetely effect whether people listen or not by persuading them to listen or being violent with them if they don't but you can't make someone listen.

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  9. Emily~ I think you can make people listen but that it won't have any effect on them unless they want to listen and understand and actually absorb the information you're throwing at them.

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  10. Class- If Mildred died what do you think she was thinking when she died?

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  11. Andrew - Earlier in the book, we heard about bombings in other places even though we did not get specific details of the bombings, unlike the very last one we heard in the story.

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  12. Class- If there were a sequel to Fahrenheit 451, what would it be about and why?

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  13. Taylor- I think it refers to the horror of medicine, because medicine can do so much, good or bad.

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  14. Class- What do you think that the overall theme of the book is?

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  15. Zoe-I would say that his predictions are correct, but to an extreme.

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  16. Taylor- I think Montag is saying that the medicine is so obscene and strong that you can only imagine it in your dreams and nightmares. The people who killed the victim seemed to show that it was intended to kill him so I believe the medicine is stronger than just your sleeping medicine and really does kill people.

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  17. Emily- when you asked the question, "Can you make people listen?" It brought to mind the saying, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." I think that you can tell people thing, but you can never force people to listen. It is that person's conscious choice whether or not to listen.

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  18. Emily- I think that you can make people listen, but sometimes the message you are trying to send will not always go through if people don't understand and agree with you

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  19. Zoe- I think that his predictions have partially come true. I think that we have a long way to go before society collapses so much that books are banned, but I do think that it is partially true.

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  20. Zoe- No, I believe that it may seem as though some predictions will come true, but I don't think we are heading in that direction. Although we are becoming more connected to technology, but there is still a sense of doubt in our society. We are in a Freshmen English Honors class and we are questioning technology now. There are intellectuals in our world who will always challenge the system.

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  21. Class- What do you think is the significance in Granger telling Montag about his grandfather? Why does he tell him this?

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  22. Class- Earlier in the book, it said that other nations were in poverty and were starving. How did society get to the point where people only care about themselves and won't do anything to help other countries?

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  23. Cole - I think that if there was a sequel to Farenhieght 451, it would be about Montag (and the men that are like him) and their fight to save books and to stop burning them.

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  24. Zoe - I don't think it would ever get that bad. I think humans do care enough and have enough control to not become like that.

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  25. Alex- She probably didn't have a care in the world like usual. Deep down I think she felt sadness, however I believe she was ready to go after living such a miserable life.

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  26. Andrew- There is a strong feeling in my mind that the rebels of the restricted society did win the war. I do feel that the newly birthed community will welcome those like Granger with open arms. The people aren't scared anymore, there aren't "intellectual gates" anymore.

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  27. Cole- For starters, if there was a sequel, it would probably be more intense and full of action, but I don't think that even a sequel could make Montag realize the damage that he has done.

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  28. Class- I don't really understand the last part of the book why did they bomb the city?

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  29. Joanna- I think the overall theme of the book is to impact the world for the better and always have a purpose to your life and all your actions.

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  30. Cole- I think it would be about Montag and his gang returning to the destroyed city, and helping it rebuild with some of their influence slowly having a presence.

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  31. Class-Does Montag's lack of emotion when the city gets destroyed make him no better than those who were killed(those who conformed to society)? Why or why not?

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  32. Jeremy - The same reason people don't care about their children. All they do is listen to their Seashell radios.

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  33. Alex- I doubt that Mildred was really ignorant about death and after she tried to commit suicide she might have been happy to die.

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  34. Jeremy- Looking at how this country is, I know absolutely why other countries are in poverty. A group of kids attempted to run over Montag in their car, just because he was out walking. The pursuit of happiness for this nation has progressed so far that kids find pleasure in murder!

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  35. Class - On page 139, Montag describes the residents of the town as, “…grey animals peering from electric caves, faces with gray colorless eyes, gray tongues, and grey thoughts looking out through the numb flesh of the face…” Is he describing them by their physical appearance (perhaps a cause of all of the nuclear war going on) or is he describing them by their figurative appearance (showing how they have no imagination and how they are all equal)?

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  36. Alex - That confused me too. I think it was the war against Montag.

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  37. Class- Given the circumstances, was the faking of Montag's death necessary or justifiable?

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  38. Jeremy--I think that the people lost its empathy the moment they lost their sense of reality. I think that the government censored this information, in order to avoid this feeling of empathy, and therefore, to stop them from feeling bad.

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  39. Class- Thank you for your thoughts and I do also think that it would be difficult to sequel Montag's feelings into another book and the story line would be hard to draw out into a novel.

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  40. Class- On pg. 149 the announcer said "The search is over, Montag is dead; a crime against society has been avenged." In their society, as soon as an action is avenged is everything just forgotten and okay? Is the whole society just based on vengeance?

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  41. Class - Montag said more than once he didn't think he would be sad if Mildred died. But, when she died, he seemed very upset. What's going on here?

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  42. Joannah- I think that the main theme of the book was that, although technology is a big part of life don't let it take over and kind of like make sure you live life to the fullest with your loved ones.

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  43. Alex- The country was at war. They were attacked and presumably they lost the war. This was just showing how swift the fall of this country was.

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  44. Jeremy-I think that greed is a part of human nature and that the society in Fahrenheit 451 just encourages it.

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  45. Jeremy- I think that we have always been that way. As humans we always want MORE. The fascination of "more this", and "more of that" have always been drilled into our minds. America is a country for more opportunity, and if we can have more, we will not let poverty get in the way.

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  46. Nick- I think that Montag lack of emotion shows what kind of a person he is, but I don't think that because he doesn't feel anything makes him no better than the people being killed. I don't have a ton of emotion over World War I, but that doesn't mean I'm no better than those who were killed.

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  47. Taylor- I think it is Bradbury's way of showing the commonality of the society, and how they are under the same spell of the government.

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  48. Colin - I think that the Government sweeps it so quicky under the rug so that other people don't get any ideas about trying to save books too.

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  49. Alex- They may have bombed the city just to make sure Montag was destroyed. As others have said before me the war could have been on Montag and they could have blamed the bombing on the city as part of the war.

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  50. Alex- The government said it was just a war, but did not give details on why.

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  51. Emily - Ever since he burned Beatty, he seemed to become more of "the fireman" again. He seemed to feel sympathy for Beatty. Since he does feel concern for one person who was never portrayed to be his friend, who can say the same didn't happen with Mildred?

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  52. Emily- I think that Montag is sort of forcing himself to feel sadness for Mildred. I think he realizes that Mildred had completely changed and had become lost in society, but he still felt guiltiness for not feeling any sorrow.

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  53. Class- What do you think Bradbury's intent is with Montag's flashbacks to his childhood?

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  54. Nick- I think that Montags lack of emotion really shows was his real motives are now. Its hard to say if he was any better than them considering Montags background as a fire fighter and then changing his opinions and fighting for his new beliefs.

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  55. Emily- Montag was upset because he wasn't upset over losing Mildred.

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  56. Emily- That was actually one of my questions! I would think that he was lying to himself in saying that he didn't love her. Her death made him extremely distraught and it seemed as though he really did love her.

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  57. Class - What type of person would start a totalitarian book-burning government and gain support from a majority of the people at the same time?

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  58. Joannah-I kind of agree with what you are saying except for when you said the part about World War I because you weren't alive during that time period. I think that all of us would feel differently about that war if we had grown up with those people and had spent a lot of time with them.

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  59. Zoey- Maybe it was to allow the readers to get more background on Montag, and allow us to get into Montag's life and mind.

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  60. Nick-I would say that Montag does not lack emotion. During the bombing he was constantly thinking about Mildred and worried about her. He may just not show his emotion.

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  61. Zoey- I think that Bradbury was trying to show that people still had memories of a time when burning books wasn't normal.

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  62. Zoey- I think Bradury is showing Montag's flashbacks to portray his slow realization of the corrupt society. He uses his flashbacks to see through the barrier the government has set up between civilians and the truth.

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  63. Class- Was Montag pushed to the point of killing Beatty? Or did he kill Beatty because in some way he was protecting Faber?

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  64. Class- How is the Phoenix an important symbol at the end of the book?

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  65. Emily- I think he is sad because he feels bad for Mildred. It isn't like she did many worthwhile things with her life from what we had seen while Montag was out trying to make a difference in the world. As the old man had said, he missed the things his grandfather had done. In Mildred's case, she never did anything. Another reason Montag may have been sad is because of the fact that he felt he wouldn't be should she die. It could be guilt upon knowing that as her husband, he should care more about her, but he doesn't.

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  66. Zoey- I think that Bradbury's intent is to give the reader some background information about Montag, so that the reader can understand why Montag is feeling or acting a certain way.

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  67. Zoey- I think his intent is to show how Montag's knowledge and beliefs about books has really changed him. By providing background information, we see what once seemed so simple from the outside.

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  68. Class--Why would the government let Montag, this threat of knowledge, go? And furthering that, why would they televise such a horrible man-hunt?

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  69. Marco - He was afraid Faber would've been found, and he took the quick action and did what he knew would save Faber

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  70. Brian- If you think about it, many people. Just talking to some people in this school, many people hate reading. Not only that, people are definitely hurt by some things said in books. The banning of books is said to be for other peoples happiness. I, however, think they used this as a cover up to gain more control.

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  72. Hunter-Maybe they didn't. They could have bombed the city to get rid of him. I also think they televised the event to show their power

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  73. Zoey- I think Bradbury's intent on including Montag's flash backs is so that readers and Montag can realize that society was not ever this bed. There has been a time where things are okay.

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  74. Brian- I don't think that one particular person started the government. I think that just the society as a whole moved towards a different type of society and some groups of people jumped on the idea, causing it to rapidly expand.

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  75. Marco- I think that Montag's killing of Beatty was an act of protection for Faber. He didn't want Beatty coming after Faber for trying to help him, so, by killing Beatty, then Beatty wouldn't be able to do any harm to Faber.

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  76. Class- Why do you think that Bradbury chose Ecclesiastes and Revelations as the books of the Bible that Montag remembers? (Is it because Revelations is about the future just like Fahrenheit 451 is about the future?)

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  77. Hunter - They let him go because:
    A: They want to silence Montag while they can
    B: They need a normal, violent television program because that's the way society has worked as far as we've learned

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  78. Class- What was the reason for the war? Why would Bradbury not make an obvious reason for the war?

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  79. Hunter - I think that they put this hunt for montag on telivision so scare all the other people out there who are agaisnt the government and burning books.

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  80. Class- I believe that just like about everything else, fire can be okay if it is used in moderation, and for the right purposes. Do you agree, disagree, feel one extreme or the other? Give me your opinion.

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  81. Rachael - Mildred, I believe, was to show why Montag was special. Bradbury needed a character to show what society was like. Mildred represented the whole society. I think Mildred was unhappy, but she didn't know how to show it. With the sleeping pills, I don't think she meant suicide, she just wanted to ease her pain, and forgot she took them. She represents the helpless society.

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  82. Rachel- I think you are right. There might be more to Mildred than we think but she just does not want to show it because she is scared.

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  83. Class--Why was the city bombed? What was this war?

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  84. Class- Granger says we cry for the undone deeds of person who dies, not for the person himself. If Montag were to die at this point, would you cry, keeping Granger's criteria in mind?

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  85. Hunter- Think about the society they are in. The "fun" park is where kids murder each other! A man hunt is most likely great entertainment for these people. Also, there are hundreds of men along these train tracks that the government have let go. They probably don't see him as a threat out in the wilderness.

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  86. Colin - I disagree. Beatty said books were challenged by minorities because they didn't like them up to a point where all books were illegal. There must have been one person who stood up and said "we are having so many problems with books that they should all just go away"

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  87. Hunter- I believe that the government let Montag go because they couldn't find him. They televised the hunt for Montag to set an example of him. Society will see how bad it is to be caught and they will avoid actions that would lead to them being hunted.

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  88. Rachael- I definetely think that something else was going on with Mildred that we don's know about, because she is so quite the entire book, and then, toward the end just picks up her bags and leaves. There was a big reason for this, but because the author makes Mildred so shy, the reader can't quite figure else what is going on.

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  89. Hunter- They have stated before that other countries in this world are in poverty, this was the reason for the war. The bombing was showing that their country had lost the war, and their society could start anew.

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  90. Colin- It may be because he wants to show that there was no valid reason for the war, that it was a waste of time, resources, and lives.

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  91. Colin - I think the war was on Montag. I thought his vagueness about it was just his style of writing. There were lots of things I thought he was unclear about.

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  93. Class - Does Faber's name sound like the word "father" by coincidence or does it symbolize the relationship between him and Montag?

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  94. Class- In a government and society that insures and makes sure that every single person is happy, how is it justified to show the murder of another human in front of the entire country? Wouldn't this upset some audiences?

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  95. Class--What if the government isn't making people miserable, but people have just lost ability to cope? Do you believe that's a possibility? Why/why not?

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  96. Meagan- I think that like you said, everything is alright in moderation. It isn't the gun that kills the person, its the person behind the gun. The fire doesn't burn the books, its the person behind the flamethrower that is doing the burning.

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  97. Hunter- I have been confused on this too, on the radio they say that this will be the shortest war ever. Only 48 hours. But what is the war for?

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  98. Rachael- I think Mildred truly was shallow. She attempted suicide, seemingly not even considering what Montag would do without her. She spent her time with herself and her friends watching the parlor walls, completely absorbed in the lives of television characters. She refused to support Montag in his attempts to reform society. If there really was a background to her, if she was aching to share her feelings with someone, she never took a leap of faith to share it and instead wallowed in self pity.

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  99. Brian- i hadn't really noticed that Faber's name sounds like father, but you bring up an interesting point about how that relates to their relationship. Faber showed Montag the light and how to survive which is what a father does.

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  100. Colin-I think that was an attempt to scare the people and warn them what will happen if they pull a stunt like that. Also, the people seemed to be very entertained by brutal things. Think of the weird TV shows the Mildred was watching.

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  101. Colin- This society would see this as entertainment! They have "fun" parks where children murder each other. The only people that would be upset would be enemies of the government such as Faber. Mildred turned Montag in, so I doubt she felt bad watching it.

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  102. Colin - It is all part of society changing. The society existing in the book is very lenient, to an extremity compared to today's society. For example in the real world, someone on a television program saying they will rob a bank won't concern people as much as if they're right there.

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  103. Brian- I think that there is a clear connection between Faber and "father" because Montag is looking for a person to go to in time of need, danger, and in time of questioning.

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  104. Brian - I hadn't thought about that before, however, I think it does symbolize the relationship between Montag and Faber. I think it also symbolizes Faber's age.

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  105. Class- Do you think that Granger is a positive person for Montag to end the book with?

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  106. Joannah - Those are my thoughts exactly

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  107. Class - What happened to Montag's bible? What happened to Faber?

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  108. Class - Why does Montag imagine that Clarisse is awaiting him on the land that the river lands him on? Is this symbolic of the men waiting for him? Does this show that Clarisse was against the burning of books too?

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  109. Brian-It says in the back of the book that Faber was the name of a pencil company that Bradbury decided to name a character after.

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  110. Brian - I think it represented not just his relationship with Montag, but as a philosopher. He was the father of the information.

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  111. Hunter- I can definitely see that as a possibility however taking away the smallest freedoms of front porches and reading a good book is taking away some of the things that make life enjoyable and meaningful for people. I think that is possible, but I think that the government is not taking in the interest of the people.

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  112. Taylor - I don't think Clarisse was ever for burning books.

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  113. Taylor - Since he gains hope from the assumption that he lost the hound, he could have the optimism that other miracles could be possible

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  114. Class- Montag must have married Mildred for a reason. Do you think she was always this way or that maybe she might have had a more optimistic personality back then? What could have changed her personality?

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  115. Class- When Montag complains about not being able to remember Mildred what does Granger tell him? What is Granger's philosophy on life? How does Montag react to this?

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  116. Joannah- I think Granger is a very positive person for him to end with. Granger has similar thoughts of Montag, however shows a greater deal of self control. Montag has great, strong ideas though. Put together, they can help reform the society that used to exist.

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  117. Nick - You're right. That is ironic, though. I would find it hard to believe that Bradbury was looking for characters and said-okay there's a pencil brand name. That's a character. There's a water fountain, that's a character.

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  118. Cassi-I think that society pushed technology on her and that she became "addicted" to it and what was on the TV's and Radios changed her personality and who she was.

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  119. Class- I would like to ask this question once again after reading the book, was the burning of books by the government originally to please the population, or for control?

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  120. Cassi- I think that Mildred kept getting more and more involved with technology.If she had a more optimistic personality, it would slowly have worn away as all her focus lay on the TV and the world of technology.

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  121. Cassi - I think it could have been a form of an arranged marriage. I don't think she was ever different.

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  122. Class - Do you think Bradbury intended to display Mildred as a protagonist or antagonist? Or is it torn?

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  123. Class- What was Montag's promise at the end of the book? Do you believe that he will carry this promise out?

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  124. Joannah- I think that Granger is a positive person but he is kind of full of himself. He is so sure that his way is the right way.

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  125. Andrew- I believe it probably began as a way to keep disagreement and pain out of society but evolved into a way to control the people.

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  126. Cassi- At ther very end Montag remembers meeting Mildred in Chicago, was she the one that changed or was it Montag?

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  127. Brian-what I meant to say was that he named Faber after the pencil company because pencils are what are used to write down Ideas and Beliefs.

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  128. Andrew - I totally believe for control. The government was afraid of the people. A perfect example is with Beatty and Montag. Beatty had to eliminate Montag because Montag was beginning to know and learn; he was a threat.

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  129. Nick- I completely agree. What matters is the "controller" of the weapon that was put into action, not the medium itself.

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  130. Brian- I think Bradbury intended Mildred to be more of a victim than anything else. She was just an example of what society can turn people into.

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