Monday, October 17, 2011

451 69-91 Period 5

125 comments:

  1. Class- What do you guys think the author wants us to think about Faber?

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  2. Class-Why does Ray Bradbury think this is the outcome of our future?

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  3. Joanna- I think the author wants us to think that Faber is a person who wants change but is not ready to give up his life for it.

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  4. Joanna- i think that Bradbury wants us to see him as someone who knows how it used to be and someone we can look to to find the answers of what to do next

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  5. Alex - Ray Bradbury is most likely defending his position as an author. He wants people to sense the good in literature, and the banning of all books will occur if people focus on the negatives in books.

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  6. Joannah- I think he makes him seem very trustworthy and friendly. But, he is also shy, so he will need Montag's help to make a difference.

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  7. Joey- I think that the author might want to introduce Faber as a very influential towards Montag. It is clear that Faber don't believe that books should be burned and could contribute a lot to the plot.

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  8. Alex- I think that Bradbury thinks this is the outcome for our future because maybe during the time he was living, things weren't going so well for him and he didn't have a very positive outlook on life.

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  9. Class-Why do you think Montag didn't turn Faber in after he had first met him? Why does he still not turn him in?

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  10. Class- we have seen what the world is like without books. How do you think the story would change if TV was banned?

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  11. Alex - I don't think he thinks it is. I think he is giving us a warning as to what it could become. It is his reminder that we need to stay intelligent.

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  12. Class - How could the flashback on page 78 with the sieve and the sand have any relevance to what Montag is going through? The chapter is called "The Sieve and the Sand," so what is the connection?

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  13. Alex- Ray Bradbury was from a very simple time period (1953) and I think he might have thought that the evolution of technology wasn't good, or that people would rely too much on it in the future. So, he just wrote the book to warn everyone about the evils of technology and what would happen if we depended on technology

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  14. Joanna- I think Bradbury wants us to see him as a person who wants change but is too scared to take action.

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  15. Class- What is "Denham's Dentifrice"? I'm really confused.

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  16. Joey--I think he wants us to feel compassion for Faber. He is an ex-scholar and his career was destroyed from the mass book ban.

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  17. Class- What do you think Montag will do with the bible? Will he risk being caught and find a substitute, or will he just give it up?

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  18. Nick - Montag didn't turn Faber in because he saw no harm being dealt when Faber had the books. He won't turn him in now because he is becoming curious about books and knows that, if anyone can answer his questions about literature, an old man like Faber was born long enough ago to give him answers.

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  19. Alex- I think that he could be warning us to be aware of how technology is changing the world. From his writing, it really seems like he is aware of technology's capabilities, both positive and negative.

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  20. Emily- I can't imagine what life would be like if all of a sudden tv was banned, too. Mildred seems to be obsessed with tv and is always watching it. It would really have an effect on Mildred, that's for sure.

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  21. Lauren- I was also confused with that part. i was thinking that it was something from a book that he remembered, but I couldn't be sure.

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  22. nick- Montag sees Faber as a friend and someone to turn to when he needs help. If he would have turned him in, then he wouldn't have that person to turn to.

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  23. Joey- I believe that Faber is a man who does not believe or agree with the government restriction that is taking place, however he does not feel that one man is enough to cause change. Montag agrees with Faber, for he does not support the government. When Faber meets Montag, he believes that he now possesses enough power, the both of them, to make a difference.

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  24. Hunter - That answer is extremely relevant. Especially now that Montag has questions. Though I agree, I don't understand why you think that prevented him from turning him in the first time he saw the books.

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  25. Class-In Fahrenheit 451, Montag asks Faber how many copies of the bible are left in the world, and Faber says none. Does this mean that all religion is gone in the world?

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  26. Brian- I was wondering that myself. Maybe the section's name "The Sieve and the Sand" is relevant to the fact that no matter how much he read the words in the Bible, he couldn't retain any of the information, just like how the sand would fall through if it were poured into a sieve.

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  27. Joey- I believe that Faber is a man who does not believe or agree with the government restriction that is taking place, however he does not feel that one man is enough to cause change. Montag agrees with Faber, for he does not support the government. When Faber meets Montag, he believes that he now possesses enough power, the both of them, to make a difference.

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  28. Jeremy- I think Montag will will risk being caught with the bible by using a substitute because he is much braver now and really values the bible.

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  29. Class- Do you guys think that in the future the number of people who don't agree with how society is will grow and band together with Montag and Faber?

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  30. Lauren-Were they always friends, like when they first met? Why didn't Montag turn him in right afterwards?

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  31. Nick - One person who may own one is Clarisse's uncle. He has been proven to be a non-conformist, and it seems there would be nobody better to own a book that should be banned above all others in the society Montag is living in.

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  32. Jeremy- I think that Montag is willing to get caught trying to get the substitute instead of just turning himself in, because remember that he held on to those 20 books for a long time without telling anybody.

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  33. Nick- Montag sees Faber as a window of opportunity for him. He wants to know of the books, how to read them and how to understand them. Faber is his only hope at this point.

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  34. Nick- That is a really interesting question. I think that this future world has gotten so materialistic and technology-oriented that believing in a higher power is gone. Also, religion has caused a lot of pain and unhappiness in history. Perhaps because of this, religion is banned as well as books.

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  35. Cass- When Montag stole the book from the old ladies house, but then he had an attic full of them. Why did he take another one?

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  36. Jeremy- Then on pages 78-80, who is saying it? Or is it just in his head?

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  37. Nick- I think religion has just faded away. As more people place the utmost importance on technology and material wealth, moral standards and beliefs will inevitably lose value.

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  38. Nick - I think Montag doesn't turn Faber in because he knows what Montag wants to know.

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  39. Class- While taking with Faber, Montag says,"My wife's dying"(Bradbury 81). What is Mildred dying of?
    If she dies, how will this affect Montag?

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  40. Marco - I find it unlikely. They couldn't make too much of a scene or else Beatty and the government would catch on. I think it will be a one or two person rebellion until a certain barrier is broken.

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  41. Nick-I suppose you're right. I had not thought about that but now it seems like it would make a lot of sense. If anything can cause disagreements its religion so I imagine religion is gone in the world.

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  42. Nick- I don't think it has all diminished. There are still books in the world, even though it was banned, but I am sure there are only a few people left that even know about the different religions.

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  43. Class-What would you have done in Faber's position, receiving a call from Montag?

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  44. Emily- I think that it has just become a reflex for him now. Remember that he described the theft as his hand doing it, not him. I don't think he even thinks about it, and maybe he just grabs and adds to the pile.

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  45. Maddie-I think that that is a really good connection. I also thought about it meaning that the sieve would filter out the bad parts of the world, being the sand.

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  46. Emily- I think that Montag doesn't take more books from the attic because he is lucky to have taken one and if he took another one someone could of caught him. Also he has already been taking books so maybe he thought this one was special.

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  47. Nick- I think that that's a really good question. True, the bible might be completely gone, but not necessarily does that mean that religion is gone. People can still go to church and practice their religion without reading the bible.

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  48. Emily- If television was banned, I think that more people would care about censorship because of how many are so reliant on technology. It's like an addiction. What would Mildred, for example, ever do without watching her programs and 'family'?

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  49. Nick--I'm not sure that all religion is gone, but I think basic religion is gone. I think they lost the details and they don't see the details required.

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  50. Jeremy- Montag said that he might try to make a copy of it or memorize every line. But, how possible is it to learn, memorize, or copy the Bible in such a short amount of time? I think he will end up keeping it and finding a substitute because he's already risking everything with a library of books at his house.

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  51. Marco - I think so. There wouldn't be a story if Montag just sat doing nothing, and if he alone acted, it would be a bit depressing if know one joined him and things reverted to before.

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  52. Nick- I think that since technology has already taken over everyone and the overall society, it has the power to decrease the importance of a written bible. Religion may still be important to some, even though books are gone. I think that people could have other ways to learn and express their religion.

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  53. Madison- I think he means it metaphorically. His wife is not actually dying, but she is dying of personality, she is not the person he knew 10 years ago. Therefore he is saying his wife is dying because of what is happening to society.

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  54. Troy- In the situation Faber was in, I would try to avoid him in any way possible, but if I was sure that Montag was not there to turn me in, I would at least talk to him.

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  55. Nick- I agree with Jeremy, I think that there are very very few people that even remember what true belief in religion is, let alone followers of one.

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  56. Nick- On page 75, it's the first time they met, Faber says,"I don't talk things, sir, I talk the meaning of things. I sit here and know I'm alive."
    I think that this really showed Montag who he was and that he was someone that really understood what was going on.

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  57. Class- Where can we draw the line with appropriate censorship?

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  58. Jeremy- His immediate reaction was to hang up the phone. Instead what could he have done.

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  59. Joannah-I feel that the bible is necessary for christianity becaust that is what the religion is based on. Without the bible, people would only know about what is in it by pasting it on verbally and then alot of its information would be lost.

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  60. Class-Do you think that Mildred values life? Not just her own either,it seems that she doesn't care about Clarisse or the women who was burned.

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  61. Class- On page 82 Faber says, "It's not books you need, it's some of the things that once were in books." This statement reminds me of Macbeth, when Lady Macbeth talks about human kindness and how she wants nothing to do with it. Faber is saying that the ideas that were once spoken about in books is what counts. Do you agree or disagree that modern day forms of books such as nooks, iPads, and e-readers are supplemental to the mass philosophies that are found in books?

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  62. Maddie- I don't think she is actually dying. She is dying inside, slowly her personality and intelligence is fading.

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  63. Amanda - We have no right to draw a line. Smith said she doesn't like people telling her what she can or cannot read. No tyrant should have the ability to persecute a person just because they are intrigued by new ideas.

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  64. Nick - I think religion is gone. If they remember it, they don't care about it. They couldn't look it up because no one can read books like the Bible. However, I think Clarisse and her family were probably somewhat religious.

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  65. Class- Like Sarah said in circle. Is Beatty on Montag's side?

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  66. Amanda- I think that the line with appropriate censorship has been crossed a long time ago. If we must draw another line, I think that it should be drawn when the last copy of the bible is finally gone. When the copy of the Bible that Montag has is finally burned, I think that something needs to be done about the whole burning books thing.

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  67. Class- I realize that Mildred keeps building up "tragedies" so to speak and after reading the book with Montag do you think she will break down and deliver the truth to Beatty about the books?

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  68. Brooke- No, I don't think that Mildred values life anymore. Her life has become the television and technology, and characters on TV come and go all of the time. Watching that for so long, I don't think that life holds value for her any more.

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  69. Class- What is the significance of the sieve and the sand? How does it relate to Montag?

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  70. Class - What qualities did Montag see in the books he was reading that always brought him straight back to Clarisse?

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  71. Brooke- I think that in the world that Montag lives in a lot of the morals that we have today are gone and people don't necessarily care when people die.

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  72. MadisonT- I think that if she really is dying, that it won't really effect him because as we've started to see, he doesn't really care about her as much anymore and doesn't really love her.

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  73. Amanda - That's a tricky question. It's like a rated R movie. They don't let four-year old kids in. So, yes, there needs to be some censorship. But as to when that needs to be applied, I don't know.

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  74. Brooke- Honestly I don't think Mildred values anything anymore except for the new technologies. The ways of society has completely taken her over to the point where she doesn't feel anymore.

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  75. Madison- I totally agree however what about her interest when Montag first started reading? What about survival instinct? There must be a fire burning somewhere right?

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  76. Emily- I think that Beatty is just looking out for Montag. He doesn't want anything to happen to him like being arrested. He comes off as being mean, but Beatty is just giving Montag his best judgment about what he should do.

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  77. Marco- I think it refers to how he can't retain any of the things he reads. For example, he doesn't understand what he is reading and he can't remember what he read.

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  78. Amanda- I don't believe anyone should even have to ability to censor things, there shouldn't be a line. Books are creations that are a method of self-expression. What authors write comes from some source, person, event, thought, etc. By censoring a book, it is not taking away the root of that text. Censoring a book, or anything for that matter, is just taking away an artistic viewpoint on something else that will not be able to cease existence.

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  79. Zoe - I think Mildred will break down if she feels ostracized or threatened by society.

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  80. Class- Why do you think there are “families” on the parlor screens? Why do people not want their real families?

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  81. Megan- This is an excellent point! I think modern day "books" are just for the glamor. No longer is reading actually about whats within the book. Its about if your nook can go on facebook. Or how many apps your Ipad has

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  82. Class- On page 85, Montag says," That's the good part of dying;...". Is Montag dying too?

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  83. Marco- The sieve and the sand relate to Montag reading books. No matter how much he reads, he will never be able to fully absorb information from all of the books in society.

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  84. Cassi- I actually never thought about it like that! I totally like your idea on censorship and it's different from what I originally thought!

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  85. Brooke- That's a good point. But think about when she tried to kill herself. I think that there's a part of her that cares very much, but it's been buried by the cheery and happy Mildred. The Mildred we have now cares about what society thinks.

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  86. Class- On page 72, Montag thinks that a dog is outside of the door. Was this the same dog that was at at the firehouse? If so, why was it at his house?

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  87. Class - Do you think the government banned all books first or decided to burn them without a statement saying books are immoral and other arguments?

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  88. Class- In your opinion, who do you think is going to have a bigger effect on Montag's decision-making? Beatty or Faber?

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  89. Emily - I think Beatty is against Montag. It's like those situations on T.V. where a kid does the bullies homework. As long as they do that, they don't get hurt, but if they say no, they get hit. I think Beatty is watching Montag, and he will let him be for now, but I believe Beatty will punish him if Montag begins to step out of line.

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  90. Lauren- Again, he is not actually dying he is just stating that society is coming to rock bottom. Our world can't get any worse than this. So he doesn't even know the point in actually "living" anymore.

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  91. Lauren- I think that Montag's physical being is actually dying. What is dying is his perception of the world around him; his whole entire world and everything that he believed in is slowly dying. He's dying inside.

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  92. Zoey--I think that they are so overwhelmed from real life when something happens that they don't want the "flawed" family. I think they are so obsessed with the "perfect" family.

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  93. Amanda- I don't think anyone should be able to censor things. It should be our choice whether we want to read questionable material not somebody else's decision.

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  94. Nick- I think Beatty may have sent the hound over to Montag's house as a warning about his recent reading.

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  95. Nick- I don't think it was the same dog because the dog at the firehouse was a huge metal hound. I think this was just a lone dog that walked up.

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  96. Class- On page 81, Faber is taking about books and says,"... before we let them go". Weren't the books taken from them? Did they have a choice of whether or not they kept the books?

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  97. Class- Like Mrs. Smith was saying, why don't we question society just as the firemen do not question Beatty? Montag is on this big adventure and thinks Beatty will ruin him, how could Beatty do anything to Montag when he is doing the same thing? Wouldn't others rebel?

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  98. Zoey- I think that relates directly back to Clarisse. She had a real family with her mom, dad, and uncle. But, Mildred seems to truly believe that her real family is on the screens. So, I don't know why Mildred wouldn't want to have a blood relative to talk to.

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  99. Class- I there any circumstances were censorship may be beneficial?

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  100. Joannah- Montag wants to challenge the system. I don't think he will want to listen to Beatty's restrictions.

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  101. Lauren- I don't think Montag is dieing but I think he has noticed that dieing would be a way out or a way to escape and he thinks this is good because he is getting so... confused and fed up with life.

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  102. Class-Fahrenheit 451 was written in 1953. Do you think that Bradbury's prediction of the future is accurate? If so, what parts?

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  103. Joey- I think that Faber will have a greater affect on Montag's decision making because he has the knowledge the draw Montag in.

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  104. Marco- I think that if literature starts to have a huge negative effect on something and making people go mad, then I think that censorship would be good, but other than that, people should be free in what they can read and write.

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  105. Class--As the inner circle is saying, "All men are created equal." Didn't someone say in the book, "Men aren't CREATED equal, men are MADE equal." Was that in this book or am i thinking about another book?

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  106. Joannah- I think that Beatty will have a bigger impact on him because he has known him longer, and I'm thinking that Beatty might guilt Montag into turning against Faber.

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  107. Nick- i think he was correct in saying that the need for books will decrease, an technology will be more apparent.

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  108. Marco- Yes, I think there is. Like someone said before (sorry I don't know who) is it right to take a four year old to a rated R movie? Children shouldn't be exposed to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, should they? There are few circumstances in which censorship is a good thing; but there are some.

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  109. Sam, Madison and Emily- I think that more right, that he's not actually dying but the world around him is.

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  110. Class- In what circumstances would be taking a four-year-old to an R rated movie be good and be positive?

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  111. Nick - This book is an extremity, but some parts are true. Any political group (Such as the KKK for an example fitting the book) could easily take a book like the Torah and burn it with encouragement of their peers. They would be given the impression their actions were correct.

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  112. Marco- I think since everything is so heavily censored so people don't know of any other option. They cant question things because they don't know of any alternatives.

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  113. Joannah- I don't think there are any??

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  114. Marco - Yes. I read a while ago that people who agreed with Hitler were worshiping a grave of a German general, and the government made it off limits, before a large group began to become serious about what they thought should happen. I think that prevented a group from getting bigger and spreading knowledge about how they thought Hitler was right.

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  115. Class--Based on what Ms. Smith is saying, how could the elite group of educated people controlling a nation survive? Wouldn't they die off? Therefore leaving no one elitely educated left?

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  116. Class - Smith was talking about how an uneducated population is imminent, especially with no fear shakespeare and spark notes for references. Could this path we're on eventually get to the point described in Fahrenheit 451 where books are condensed into two pages and other forms of literature that getting a whole story is unheard of?

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  117. Class- Throughout the reading, the word family is quoted, Why?

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  118. Class- Of Faber's 3 requirements for having good thinking, which is the most important? Is there one that is more necessary than the others?

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  119. Joanna- a four year old to an R rated movie would tech them about why its R, why this is considered bad. But the bad side would be that they don't take it the right way, they don't realize that these things are bad.

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  120. Joannah - I don't think there are. I can't imagine my four-year old cousin seeing The Hangover or Scream 4.

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  121. Brian- I definitely think there's a possibility for that to happen. In order to prevent it, and stop the progress that's already been made, we must "Be the change we'd like to see happen in the world."

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  122. Class - Since it is possible that literature will be stored entirely on iPads, Nooks, and Kindles, will it come to a point where paper books could be burned carelessly as long as the computer file or the USB drive holding the words exists?

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  123. hunter- like in a royal family, as the sons and daughters are born, they become the king or queen. As the people in this elite have kids, they educate their kids and the elite will continue.

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  124. Joannah/Class- Taking a four year old to an R rated movie would be emotionally scarring. How many of you had nightmares after seeing a scary movie? Yes, they tell you it's not real, but you still see the boogie man in every closet. It does damage you emotionally.

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