Class-What do you think fire symbolizes in this novel? Why?
Class- Why would Bradbury let the girl die?
Class- Now that Clarisse is gone how will Montag’s life change?
Nick- I think fire symbolizes technology and how it is sort of taking over society. When the fire burns the books, it is destroying knowledge, just as technology is taking away people's desire to learn.
Nick- I think it symbolizes destruction, not peace how Beatty describes it. Beatty says fire is clean but I think it is destruction and even despair.
Class- Is Beatty the enemy?
Nick- I think fire symbolizes destruction. Not only does the fire used in the novel destroy books, it destroys knowledge and the ideas thought up by great minds of the past.
Nick- I think fire symbolizes the burning of books. Fire is what is used to demolish literature and when they mention fire, most likely they are burning houses that hold books.
Nick- I think that it symbolizes secrets, or more obviously, the covering up of secrets and uncomfortable things.
Nick- I think fire symbolizes the society burning and falling apart. It represents how the world used to be happy but now with all new additions, it is falling apart.
Sarah- I'm not sure Beatty is the exact enemy because he is still human, he just has different, harsh ways of seeing things. He used to love to read and learn but the future of technology has changed him.
Troy-I think that he let her die because when a good character in a book dies it has an enormous impact on the reader and it makes the reader feel more apart of the book. The girl dying could also symbolize the sacrifice of goodness in the novel.
Sarah- Yes, Beatty is obviously supporting the government which happens to be corrupt.
Class- Is it possible Clarisse was killed on purpose? Beatty talks about how they try to keep people like her from rubbing off on others.
Troy- I think Bradbury allowed Clarisse to die because it seems that with the book burnings, many other good things are vanishing. He is warning the readers to be careful and never take good things for granted.
Alex- Clarisse has already made an impact on Montag. So now that she's gone, I think Montag will continue to rebel against the censorship of books.
Nick- I think fire symbolizes the burning away of society. It represents the depression of the people and their lives burning away.
Class-Why did Beatty give Montag that speech?
Troy-I don't think he would let such an important character die so early on in the story. I think she might return later on in the book.
Class - Why is the chapter called "The Heath and the Salamander"?
Sarah- I also had a feeling that Beatty may be the enemy. Even after they have burned a woman alive, he still encourages Montag to go on with his every day life. I also feel there is something sinister about him.
Class- Where is the government in all this? Is Beatty behind banning books? Is he apart of the government?
Class- Why doesn't Mildred seem to care about the death of Clarisse? She obviously was important to Montag.
Zoey- I think this is a very valid idea. I thought of this too and I think Beatty might have had something to do with her death because she is such a free-spirited person and she was a threat to the "peace."
Alex- I think that Montag will stop questioning the government, since Clarisse had inspired him. Without Clarisse, he might stop challenging the system. And without someone questioning the corrupt system no one else will. Its like dominoes, once one falls the rest come down with it, but if ti does not fall, nothing else will either.
Zoey- I believe that yes, Clarisse was murdered on purpose because she was calling attention to the government and making people question their lives.
Class- Beatty talks about how Clarisse being dead is a good thing because she always wanted to know why. He says that the best way for a man to be happy is to not give them any choices. How can this world believe that having choices and free agency is a bad thing that will bring unhappiness?
Nick- I agree with Alex in that the fire symbolizes a loss of societies thirst for knowledge.
Brian- It is called "The Heath and the Salamander" because that is the emblem on the firemen's jackets.
Brian- I believe that this chapter is called "The Heath and the Salamander" because salamanders have been told in stories as creatures who crawled around in fire and lived in it. It connects to the theme of fire.
Zoey- I think that it is possible that Clarisse could have been killed on purpose. Beatty say that Montag was acting a bit off and he could have easily learned that she recently moved near him. Good prediction!
Rachel, how then could she return if she was said to be dead? Who would lie about her death and why?
Rachael-Sometimes the author might kill off an important character in order to create an internal struggle for the character, or to cause a mystery for us
Zoey- I was thinking the same thing. When Beatty tells Montag about how she died and that they were always keeping an eye on her family it almost sounds like he's telling this to Montag because he knew that Montag was starting to like Clarisse.
Hunter - With the conversation in the inner circle about the power of the government, I think this response makes the most sense. Beatty may somehow know that Montag is conflicted internally. Maybe by the hand of technology or past experience. He seems to want to confuse Montag, which is curious and a non sequitur to the policy.
Class- Is there a reason that everyone refers to Guy Montag as just 'Montag', or is it just Bradbury's style?
Mackenzie- Beatty might believe that people having choices and freedom will bring too drastic of a change. It will destroy the world that took centuries to build and threaten the peace that they have now.
Brian- It's actually called "The Hearth and the Salamander". This is because a hearth is a fireplace and that symbolizes the fire, while the salamander is the emblem on the fireman's jacket.
hunter- i think that its because, like beatty said, he's seen this before and this is the way he's going to help Montag and get him back to work.
Colin- I think that Mildred is so numb and depressed that nothing could really affect her. She is so mentally ill that the death of important people does not cause her to mourn or comfort the people whom the death affected.
Mackenzie- The world believes that having choices will bring unhappiness because they believe that even the slightest things will offend people. If one race or even one person is offended, the entire society goes out of their way to be sure to keep things fair. Their society is all about equality and keeping everyone happy.
Sarah- I don't think that Beatty is the enemy. He understands where Montag is coming from but he believes that it is good to burn books.
Class- what do you think Beatty means when he says, "A book is a loaded gun in the house next door?" Why?
Class- After hearing that Montag is going to start reading the books he has kept hidden to see what information they contain,do you think Montag may challenge society because of what he reads?
Brooke- I believe that this is a very interesting question, and one that is hard to answer. I think that Bradbury chose the name "Guy" because it just seems so impersonal. We say, "hey guys" when we're talking to a lot of people, not individuals. Guy may represent a certain type of person, but Montag is one person.
Colin- I honestly don't think Mildred really cares about anything. It seems that all she does is listen to her audio-Seashell and her programs. She wouldn't want to "trouble" herself over a girl she doesn't personally know. I find her relationship with Montag strange; a married couple that is actually in love would sympathize with their spouse.
Hunter- I think that Beatty gave Montag that speech to keep his eyes on the road and to not be distracted by other people rebelling. Beatty also might have an idea that Montag has books in his possession and so hes trying to tell I'm that "I'm on to you." Hes also trying to convince him that what hes doing is right (burning books).
Brooke- I think that Guy Montag is referred to as Montag because he is an old man without that young flare and hope for the future. He is used to the world and it is normal and appropriate to be called by his last name.
Lauren--But you can't always believe what you hear, what if he just said that to justify this speech
Troy-In the short stories we read we saw how some of the people who were different or didn't fit the mold of the rest of the society were taken away. Clarisse could have been taken away so she wouldn't be a threat to the rest of the society.
Marco- I think that he will challenge society because the whole conflict in this novel is about people conforming to society.
Class- What do you think Guy will do as a result of Clarisse's death?
Class- What do you think happened in Montags past, that sparked his interest to steal books and read them?
Marco- Yes, I think with the combination of the information from the books he reads and the things Clarisse has shown him, Montag will realize how corrupt society has become and try to do something about it.
Class- How does the Beatty visit at the Montag's house affect the security of Montag and Mildred?
Nick- I think that this quote means that once someone has read a book they obtain knowledge that can be used as a weapon towards the government because they then can question what the government is doing.
Colin- I don't think Mildred cares about anything anymore except for new technology. I also think that because Montag and Clarisse were so important to each other Mildred did not like her. Mildred depends on her husband for money and with Clarisse filling his mind with all these thoughts there is a chance Montag will come to his senses and leave Mildred.
Marco- I think that Montag is already starting to question society and its ways. Just reading the books represents a challenge to society. I think the books may influence him to make a bigger stand against society.
Sarah- I believe that his interest in stealing books was initially sparked by the old man that he remembers speaking to him in a park. Whenever he brings up the grille it seems that the old man is brought up with it. Perhaps we will see more about what the old man means later on.
hunter- i think that he knows that Montag is hiding something, especially when he asks about fireman taking books, and he's trying to take the idea of books might be a good thing out of Montag's head by showing why this was started and why it's bad for the government so it should be bad for him to
Cole- After the visit, Montag feels as if he must start reading the books as soon as possible. But, Mildred feels that every time their doorbell rings, it's someone who will catch and punish them.
Sarah- What would you do if you were forbidden to read books and your job was to set them on fire? Wouldn't the curiosity eventually build up inside of you and make you want to know what was so bad about books?
Nick--What if this novel is about the consequences to conforming to society? Wouldn't the kids have been alright if everyone had conformed?
Sarah- I don't understand how Montag can be a fireman and steal and keep books to himself. His father might have inspired Montag to read and understand.
Marco- Yes I do think that Montag will test society because he had enough courage to read the books in the first place and he has the desire to learn and know what is out in the world. Montag doesn't seem afraid to be the one to dive into the books and understand what the past was like. I think Montag has a bigger reason for reading the books then he is revealing.
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Class- Why is Mildred completely absorbed in technology, like her radio and the shows on the walls, while Montag doesn't have any interest in it?
Sarah- I'm sure that as Clarisse previously suggested, Montag does not completely support the banning and burning of books. He is just going along with it because he was expected to. It reminds me of during how Hitler's reign, the Nazi's didn't always necessarily agree with his extremist ideas, but did go along with it in their actions.
Ellen- I think Montag will try and continue Clarisse's thinking.
Class- When Montag reveals all of the books that he has kept, someone comes to the door. Do you think that it was Beatty or someone else? Clarisse?
Cole- Beatty's visit to the house definitely raises more suspicion about Montag and Mildred. However, at this point I think that Montag is so upset over his realization of the way society is running, that he won't really care about much anymore.
Ellen-I think that guy will probably stop thinking of ideas of going against the system, he will stop questing whether being a firefighter is the right thing to do, and he will turn into the unhappy man that he began to be in the first place. When Clarisse asked him if he was happy in the beginning he thought to himself that he really wasn't. Later, he looked forward to see her. Since he found out about her death, he will start to go back into the black hole that he started in.
Brooke- I think that Montag is referred to without his first name because it seems that he isn't very familiar with anyone. The people he's closest to are Mildred and Clarisse. Mildred is always using her technology, keeping to herself, and Clarisse is gone. On top of that, he's gaining a somewhat different mindset now, distancing himself further from society.
Zoey- I think that it is just because Mildred and Montag are so completely different. Mildred is naturally just more absorbed in the technology and her "relatives", when Montag is interested in the real world and things like his job.
Cole- I think the visit made them realize that they are always being watched and that Beatty possibly knows something.
Zoey- I think Mildred has gotten swept up in the awe of technology because she is easily influenced, while Montag is not so much.
Class - On the night Mildred attempted suicide, a machine swapped her blood with detoxified blood, therefore saving her life. The class saw that as a figurative statement meaning Mildred herself was "changed" or "swapped." Could that previous event or the thought that his wife was suicidal have anything to do with Montag feeling like he didn't know her on page 42?
Cole- I think the visiting of Montag and Mildred's house threatens Montag's security greatly. Once he gets the hint that Beatty knows that he has been hiding books he feels like he either has to decide to burn the books or read them and go against society. It doesn't really effect Mildred until Montag shows her the books putting her in harms way, the second after she is also held accountable for knowing that Montag is hiding books she is also afraid and immediately tries to burn the books.
Cole- I do not think that it really affects their security as much as it affects their state of mind. After Beatty appeared and lectured Guy, Montag was especially bothered and I think that Beatty just sparked his curiosity more.
Class- What is the significance of Beatty staying over for a long time at Montag's house? What does this show about Beattys's character? What is Beatty trying to prove to Montag?
Cole- I think that Beatty's unexpected arrival will shake both Mildred and Montag because Beatty was very suspicious about what was going on in their home and he knows that there is something going on even though Mildred didn't completely understand that yet. Montag has put himself in a dangerous spot by having all the books in his house and they will feel an insecurity and edge that will keep them on their toes for the rest of the book.
Class- What is the significance of the passage Montag read to Mildred? ("It is computed that eleven thousand persons have at several times suffered death rather than submit to break their eggs at the smaller end.")
Marco- I believe that Montag is beginning to challenge society. Burning books is a fundamental part of society and he is already questioning society because he is not sure whether or not he should continue working as a firefighter.
Class- After getting run over by the car Clarisse is pronounced dead, do you think she really is?
Nick - I believe the person at the door was someone in Clarisse's family. It seems like literary perfection that the relatives of the radical character show up at the time Montag is breaking the belt of conformity. They could be asking for an explanation or any knowledge.
Cassi- I definitely agree with that. But I also agree with Madison's thoughts on the fact that everything is informal.
Class- When Montag thought about opening the window he decided it was best not to because his fear that the hound will jump in and get him. Why would he think this?
Class- Isn't it interesting that Beatty knows so much about books and history, when he is trying to stop others from gaining the knowledge?
Class--Do you think that Beatty had a point of restrictions in order to preserve happiness
Cassi- That is a great response. I think that's why Bradbury decided to call him Montag more often than Guy. Thinking back, Montag has no real, personal relationships with anyone but Clarisse, Mildred, and even Beatty at first. But, now that he has a new perspective, he doesn't particularly feel close to anyone. Maybe Mildred and Montag's relationship will strengthen while they read together.
Sanjay- That is a really good point. He tells Montag about all of this history, yet how did he get it?
Troy- I think that Beatty's long stay shows that he has been through this before. Many people have probably second-guessed society's ways like Montag, and Beatty is used to explaining that this is just how society works. Beatty is just trying to show Montag that everything is burned just to keep people happy.
Class- Once Montag gives Mildred the choice to read the books with him she agrees. Do you think that she's agreeing because she also wants to see what information they contain or do you think that she is trying to buy time to tell Beatty what is going on and turn in Montag?
Hunter- I don't understand your question.
Alex- Like the center was discussing earlier, my intuition tells me that she is still alive, as is the rest of her family. Maybe those types of people are needed in the "higher" classes.
Zoey- I don't think Montag has shown any interest in the technology Mildred uses because perhaps he is conscious of the addictive qualities it possesses. It is what turned (I am assuming) Mildred into the type of person she is today: Unresponsive and dry.
Hunter- What is the restriction that he demands to preserve happiness?
Colin- I think its trying to say that people can get so stuck in their way of doing things. It could be foreshadowing of people being resistance to radical change in society, even if it is beneficial.
Brian-I was also thinking along those lines because maybe Clarisse isn't dead. Maybe she was taken by the government in order to figure out how some people are able to resist conformance.
Colin - Though it is unlikely, I think this ties into the idea of the deaths of Clarisse and Mrs. Blake. People who challenge the system could all die but the message they leave will carry on forever.
Sanjay- I do think it is a little strange that Beatty is, in a way, hypocritically telling Montag that no good information can be absorbed from books. But, how would Beatty know all of the information and history he's telling Montag in the first place? Maybe, at one time, Beatty rebelled and didn't have the same realizations as Montag is having now.
He is explaining that the government is burning books because it reduces happiness. Uncle Tom's Cabin, etc. Do you think he has a point that to get rid of what makes people unhappy?
Sarah- I think he is nervous to open the window because the hound will come in because he is hiding a lot of books in his house and he is violating every rule of the firemen. The hound searches for people hiding books and he knows that it will sniff him out soon. He has a nervous edge to everything he does because of his actions.
Class- Does anyone know what was going on around the time that Bradbury wrote the book that would lead him to these assumptions on the future?
Class- Do you think that Fahrenheit 451 was accepted when it was first published? Do you think that many people considered it extremely fictional compared to Brabury's vision that it was a warning?
Marco-I think that it is human nature to be curious. I think that Mildred also wants to find out why the books are being burned and what information is inside.
Hunter- Beatty does tend to truly obey the government and he doesn't really seem to care for the people that he burns and effects with the relentless burnings of books.
Nick - I think it's a possibility that she isn't. The government is supposed to take dead bodies ASAP before someone knows of the death and changes because of it. If she was dead, she would be "cleaned up" before anyone would know. Not even the driver that "hit" her.
Class- In the book the main goal for the world is for people to be happy and they seem to think that having more technology and isolating themselves from society will make them happier. Beatty says that when people have fun they are happy. Does fun promise happiness?
Marco- I think the world was just being introduced to technology such as TV and other popular gadgets. Everyone was probably very happy and interested, and Bradbury was able to look beyond the present and predict where technology would take them.
Class- Beatty says that books have been burned since the civil war, but before, he says that they were being burned since 1790. Why don't many people actually know the history of books?
Marco- If I remember correctly, television had been invented and then introduced around Bradbury's time. Perhaps the spawning of new technology gave him the idea of it someday taking over...
Class-Do you think that Beatty's conformance to the law is just a front or do you believe that he truly thinks that what he is doing is morally right?
Brooke- I think that almost everyone thought that Fahrenheit 451 was fictional, I don't really think that anyone saw it as a threat because at that time technology was still barely being introduced. Instead people though technology was fascinating and didn't pose a threat.
Alex- Yes. I think that Clarisse is dead because government officials want to make sure that people know that they are not messing around. They want things done a certain way and making observations and being different is not the way of society. Even thought Beatty claims that she was just hit by a car, officials probably killed her off so she would not influence others to question and observe as well.
Jeremy-No one knows the history because the history was all contained within the books and now those books are gone.
Jeremy- I think that people don't know the history of books because they are seen as terrible and forbidden. They have been burned for so long that no one even has a desire to know the history of books.
Class- When Mildred talked about driving and hitting rabbits and dogs, was she kidding? Does she have no compassion for the living things in the world? Is everyone like this?
Class- It is mentioned that all houses have been fireproofed. Do you think that people can infer that this happened so firefighters can burn books?
Nick- I think it's possible that he has been brainwashed, just like the rest of society, to believe that books are truly wrong and what he is doing is the right thing. If he didn't believe this, it would be very difficult for him to keep burning the books, like it is becoming for Montag.
Nick--I think he does question the system, but he hides it well. Like the policy of letting firemen keep books, like him admitting to reading books sometimes. I think he really does question it.
Brooke - This idea is technically a paradox. It was intended to enter the public and raise awareness on burning books. He wants people to know that, on the route we're headed down, literature will have to be controlled or "cleansed." Unfortunately, the people who oppose it (most likely driven by fear) banned it because they refuse to accept what is possible.